General Election - December 12th, 2019

[inbetween]

It is currently a shambles because of the types of ideologues that have hijacked the party to feed their narrow passions - divorced from the fact that this has moulded the party into an image that is unelectable

For me - history establishes that Blair was a war criminal that committed the ultimate betrayal of taking his country to was based on outright lies. That said - I voted for Blair - I would no way vote for the current leadership

Still - they are happy that the party is becoming 'purified' - even if that means that it is destined to become only a party of protest

Utter narrow-minded vandalism to my mind - but it is what it is - they just have to be left to whine away their bitterness in their echo chambers

Great post and vandalism is a great word.

At the minute Labour only stands as an ignorant London centric and middle class elite that exists purely to pontificate and solve all of the worlds injustices at the expense of everybody else.

Who will pay for their mistakes and ignorance? It won't be them that is for sure.

 

[Ban-jani]

I fail to see any conspiracy, Heath latterly confirmed that his deal to join was made on the basis of a private federal undertaking. The record of it is now in the public domain as referenced. The EU is also openly stalling new membership and seeking to reduce the eurozone not expand it.

Is that a general policy or more a specific one to those who would actually be interested in joining?

 

[mcfc1632]

I'm sure the EU were quaffing champagne when THE UK agreed to something MORE favourable to the EU than what they ( the EU) had proposed.
And as part of the subsequent negotiations with Johnson of course they said they wouldn't reopen the WA , for two reasons - first that's what anybody would do in a negotiation and second they couldn't see an alternative way forward because of the UK's red lines.
But then Johnson dropped his trousers, dropped the UK red line of no border in the Irish Sea and the EU agreed to revert to their original offer which admittedly was not as favourable to them as THE UK's foolish and over generous backstop proposal but was nevertheless acceptable
So by all means celebrate an internal Tory party victory of pulling back from something the Tories foolishly gave away and shouldn't have but don't claim it as a victory against the EU.
It makes you look silly and when Tory politicians do the same it makes the country look like a bigger laughing stock than we already are on the international stage.

Len - TBF I was really posting that to explain to others that are confused about the collective denial - I do not have either hope or interest in the collective suddenly discovering an ability to assess and comment objectively.

There is nothing about what I post that should be considered as 'glorying' the Tories - I have been clear that May and Robbins were inept to an off the scale level

But the facts - as set out by @Chippy_boy are simply undeniable

None of this should be seen as some strategic success - The Tories have fucked the negotiations since 2016

But the unfettered backstop was a prospect of such damaging potential that we can all be relieved that the threat has been removed

 

[mcfc1632]

One last try you say. Well that’s something I suppose

I am known for my commitment to missionary work

 

[Fame Monster]

Meanwhile in other election news BoJo has shelved his promises to cut corporation tax and reduce personal taxation by lifting the 40% threshold from 50k to 80k.
Now there's a surprise.

Great news if true.

 

[mcfc1632]

Language is always interesting. Johnson on getting a deal done by 2020.

“I see absolutely no reason why we should not get it done in the time available.”

Now we all know this isn’t going to happen as we are proposing a trading relationship whose central premise is less trade and more trade barriers which is contrary to all other trade deals. This means it’s a one off and there will be a line by line scrutiny by the EU on every business sector and by the E27 to make sure they come out ahead of the game and this will take time and lots of it.

Johnson doesn’t actually promise that we will do it by 2020 he just sees no reason (now) why it should not get done which leaves it open to discover all sorts of reasons in the future why it will not get done.

A bit like leaving by Oct 31st deal or no deal. Johnson can say he will do it if he simply ignores that Parliament would not let him do it. No harm in repeating the same trick of ignoring the bleeding obvious until after you have won the election.

Sounds entirely sensible does it not

 

[mcfc1632]

And none of this has to do with Brexit. How we organise ourselves politically is a purely domestic matter. Have we got to the point where we simply now invent things and claim it’s a benefit of Brexit? Great news lads. I now feed my cat premium cat food. Thank god Brexit gave me this opportunity.

I know we’re desperate but Christ let's not start mainlining this horseshit just yet.

Well TBF we have had over 3 years of bollocks from you Remainers blaming anything on Brexit

So to be balanced - it is our turn for another 3 years

 

[bluethrunthru]

Len Rum said: ↑
Meanwhile in other election news BoJo has shelved his promises to cut corporation tax and reduce personal taxation by lifting the 40% threshold from 50k to 80k.
Now there's a surprise.

The man's a fucking Marxist out to ruin the country !!!

( isn't that the BM default response to these very policies? )

 

[BobKowalski]

Great post and vandalism is a great word.

At the minute Labour only stands as an ignorant London centric and middle class elite that exists purely to pontificate and solve all of the worlds injustices at the expense of everybody else.

Who will pay for their mistakes and ignorance? It won't be them that is for sure.

You do know that London is also home to a lot of working class and especially ethnic working class who also happen to vote Labour. The casual way they are dismissed as some sort of ‘London elite’ will come as news to a black mom bringing up her kids on an estate in Hounslow.

 

[Len Rum]

Len - TBF I was really posting that to explain to others that are confused about the collective denial - I do not have either hope or interest in the collective suddenly discovering an ability to assess and comment objectively.

There is nothing about what I post that should be considered as 'glorying' the Tories - I have been clear that May and Robbins were inept to an off the scale level

But the facts - as set out by @Chippy_boy are simply undeniable

None of this should be seen as some strategic success - The Tories have fucked the negotiations since 2016

But the unfettered backstop was a prospect of such damaging potential that we can all be relieved that the threat has been removed

So we are agreed Johnson's "success" ( insofar as it was one) was to reverse a previous cock up by his own side (the UK albeit under a different PM ) and to get the 'other side'( the EU) to put back on the table an earlier offer they had made which was better for the UK (despite the fact we rejected it at the time).
AND to do this Johnson had to agree an internal economic border in the UK, something both he and Mavis had categorically ruled out.
That is an internal UK "success" only my friend which takes us back to an EU offer that we could have accepted in December 2017. It does not represent a "victory" over the EU.
As for your constant harping on about the threat of no deal, you are wrong again. The Benn letter in fact took no deal off the table before the current WA was agreed AND the EU know there is no way this PM in particular could countenance no deal ( he likes an easy life and knows he doesn't have the application or skills to lead a country in chaos).

 

[George Hannah]

Is that a general policy or more a specific one to those who would actually be interested in joining?

I think it's the former but this is the wrong thread
Emmanuel Macron wants to make it tougher for the European Union to accept new members, adding to signs of French unease at the prospect of Balkan countries joining the bloc and raising the risk of further strains with Germany.
In a document circulated to EU governments, France said the process of EU enlargement should be more “gradual,” terms of accession more “stringent” and the process “reversible.” Eventual accession should only be possible “in the long term,” and only after the bloc has been “reformed,” according to the memo seen by Bloomberg.
Two EU diplomats in Brussels said the French proposals amount to an effective halt on EU enlargement, making accession a moving target for western Balkan countries. EU ministers will discuss the matter on Tuesday, just weeks after Paris torpedoed the start of accession negotiations with Albania and the Republic of North Macedonia.The French proposals were circulated days after President Macron signaled support for rapprochement with Moscow and said the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is suffering a “brain death.”

Seven Steps
In the memo, France proposes that accession talks be organized into seven stages, and that convergence with the EU’s rule-of-law standards be part of the first stage.
The plan highlights France’s exasperation with the constant fighting between Brussels and eastern European countries admitted to the bloc in 2004 and 2007. The skirmishes have centered on judicial independence and the state of democracy in those countries.
One of the EU diplomats said it’s difficult to see how demands for far-reaching overhauls at the beginning of the envisaged process, in return for small rewards, could encourage reforms and reformers in the western Balkans.
The French document is based on the idea of a “variable-geometry Europe,” the second diplomat said, with a series of concentric circles of “associated” countries, which would most likely never become member states.
In return for accepting a slower admission process, Balkan states would be eligible for more financial incentives, including access to structural funds from the EU’s joint budget, according to the memo, the authenticity of which was confirmed by the Elysee Palace.
Access to the bloc’s customs union and the single market would be granted before accession, while negotiations could be suspended at any stage and benefits revoked in the event of backtracking on reforms.
The infighting over further enlargement reflects two competing political views: the German-backed argument that offering more Balkan countries the hope of joining the world’s top trading club strengthens Europe’s stability; and French-led calls for deeper integration of the bloc before any further expansion.
For many Brussels insiders, Macron’s resistance to further enlargement is rooted in internal considerations, as admitting more poor member states could further strengthen euroskeptic and populist forces, including in France.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...w-eu-expansion-in-latest-sweeping-reform-push

 

[Len Rum]

Great news if true.

Indeed.
But that does bring into doubt whether you can believe anything he says.
So don't get upset when he reverses other 'promises' made which at the moment you may agree with.
Brexiters for example may not be happy if he ditches his " promise" not to extend the transition beyond Dec 2020 and goes for a much softer Brexit with close alignment to the EU.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Great post and vandalism is a great word.

At the minute Labour only stands as an ignorant London centric and middle class elite that exists purely to pontificate and solve all of the worlds injustices at the expense of everybody else.

Who will pay for their mistakes and ignorance? It won't be them that is for sure.

you ignorant twat

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Len Rum said: ↑
Meanwhile in other election news BoJo has shelved his promises to cut corporation tax and reduce personal taxation by lifting the 40% threshold from 50k to 80k.
Now there's a surprise.

The man's a fucking Marxist out to ruin the country !!!

( isn't that the BM default response to these very policies? )

I thought cutting tax increased the amount of tax taken?
I only think this because: Boris Johnson, one of the candidates to replace Theresa May as Conservative leader and prime minister, told party members in Darlington that cutting the rate of corporation tax always increased the amount of revenue raised.

 

[jonmcity]

I thought cutting tax increased the amount of tax taken?
I only think this because: Boris Johnson, one of the candidates to replace Theresa May as Conservative leader and prime minister, told party members in Darlington that cutting the rate of corporation tax always increased the amount of revenue raised.

But that was then. This is a new type of tax where you have to pay money, not just a pack of lies.

 

[BLUEMATT23]

Staggered at the latest poll on here again to be honest, defying all the trends and polls.
Labour don't have a prayer of winning.

 

[inbetween]

You do know that London is also home to a lot of working class and especially ethnic working class who also happen to vote Labour. The casual way they are dismissed as some sort of ‘London elite’ will come as news to a black mom bringing up her kids on an estate in Hounslow.

Eh? How did you translate what I said into an attack on London demographics? I never mentioned the people of London, I am talking of Labour as a party and its leadership.

When I say Labour is London centric I mean that Labour politicians only think of a world centred on the ideals that they enjoy in London. That is why the North is somewhat abandoning Labour.

It is because they are the type of people who are rich enough to enjoy the ideals and not worry about the difficulties in life.

They are the kind of people like Emily Thornberry who claims to stand for the working class but is repulsed by the imagery of the realities of the working class.

They are the people who pontificate about the elitism of private schooling but then simultaneously send their own kids to private school!

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

You do know that London is also home to a lot of working class and especially ethnic working class who also happen to vote Labour. The casual way they are dismissed as some sort of ‘London elite’ will come as news to a black mom bringing up her kids on an estate in Hounslow.

careful with the stereotyping there bob !

 

[Coatigan]

Indeed.
But that does bring into doubt whether you can believe anything he says.
So don't get upset when he reverses other 'promises' made which at the moment you may agree with.
Brexiters for example may not be happy if he ditches his " promise" not to extend the transition beyond Dec 2020 and goes for a much softer Brexit with close alignment to the EU.

Interesting choice of words.

 

[George Hannah]

There was no federal ‘private undertaking’ it was all out in the open.....

This elderly (and admittedly partisan) account gives the chapter and verse.