General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Blue Hefner]

I think the country needs a big change and a radical new approach but it needs some common sense to it. The choice at the moment is keep the status quo and either vote for £1.65 a week and paint a few hospitals or throw money at absolutely every fucking thing you can think of.

I agree. But how do we get there? The only way I see is a Labour Party willing to come more towards the Blair Labour Party(one that shown it could win) and then once in incrementally make changes to the benefits of all

 

[hilts]

What's the point in attending your own stoning? C4's debate format is seriously fecked. Designed that way to benefit the opposition of course.

I find hiding under the bed hoping the polls are correct(hello history the dumb twat) is pitiful. If he had any faith in himself or his policies(ha) he should be getting out there trying to convince more people to vote for his party and get a larger majority. But he’s shit, we know it, he knows it and so do the Tories on here. They are just shit scared of Corbyn and with good reason.

What an optimistic vision, I’m shit but I’m hoping you think Corbyn is even more shit.

 

[Ban-jani]

He could go on their, defend the governments 9 years in power and spell out a realistic and workable plan for the country for the next 5 years. I don’t think that is too much to ask for a man who wants to continue as PM

Isn’t the debate about climate change?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Talking about the Labour Manifesto, I was listening to 5 Live before and they had two people on discussing it. The first, who was pretty well in favour, was the former Greek Finance Minister, Yanis Varoufakis. Gave a very good review, coherent & heartfelt. Then they had someone who was critical of it. They described him as being from the Cato Institute, which I'd vaguely heard of. But he was clearly so ideologically driven that alarm bells started ringing in my head. So I looked up the Cato Institute and it's a right-wing, American libertarian group set up by the infamous Koch brothers.

So the BBC, without providing any context, is allowing an avowedly extremely economic right-wing group to spout its propaganda, rather than have an intelligent discussion.

False equivalence in the “unbiased” media. It’s why Brexit has still not been stopped and a large contributor to the sorry state of the country.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Isn’t the debate about climate change?

I don’t know. I thought I just read that he has pulled out of the leaders debate on C4, I assumed it was the normal format. Either way, I take it the Tories have a short/medium and long term plan for climate change so why can’t he go on and talk about that?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Clive Lewis is not a moderate and won't win a general election.

ok but there must be bloody someone who agrees that those who are disabled or poor need support but those who create wealth and have ambition should be supported not treated like criminals

jim Radcliffe who Corbyn hates was a council estate kid and built a large global chemical company. He should be someone labour is using as an example of social mobility instead they are making out that he is a criminal.

That’s just bonkers.

 

[Ban-jani]

I don’t know. I thought I just read that he has pulled out of the leaders debate on C4, I assumed it was the normal format. Either way, I take it the Tories have a short/medium and long term plan for climate change so why can’t he go on and talk about that?

I had C4 on from 7 all the way through. They said on there it was a climate debate and he hadn’t responded yet, not that he’d declined or pulled out.

Could you have read something from someone partisan that had twisted that maybe? Or have I got it wrong?

 

[Len Rum]

I discovered babestation

Those premium lines are a bit expensive they?



So I'm reliably informed.

 

[Ban-jani]

ok but there must be bloody someone who agrees that those who are disabled or poor need support but those who create wealth and have ambition should be supported not treated like criminals

jim Radcliffe who Corbyn hates was a council estate kid and built a large global chemical company. He should be someone labour is using as an example of social mobility instead they are making out that he is a criminal.

That’s just bonkers.

As long as everyone is poor it’s alright, it seems.

 

[hilts]

I agree. But how do we get there? The only way I see is a Labour Party willing to come more towards the Blair Labour Party(one that shown it could win) and then once in incrementally make changes to the benefits of all

You show people you can be socially responsible without killing the economy. You have to gain trust. You don’t try to do everything in one go it’s too costly and it smacks of we might not get this chance again. If we accept that all manifestos underplay the cost as all govts do it’s just too much. Put in some self imposed controls to appease those with concerns because they need middle England.
Put spending on the nhs to the levels of say France and Germany. Add in a debt level maximum. Increase the minumum wage and take tax out of the equation for low earners but pay for it through a raise in income tax for the rest staggered so they don’t receive the benefit of the allowance. Tighten up on workers rights but don’t make it an employees piss take.Show they can get money from your Amazon’s. Nationalise railways as the contracts come up and show it works. Then you can start on the others.

Work to shape Europe and bring other parties into discussions on the enviroment and the NHS. If they are correct in the way they see the future and it looks like it’s working they will get in again. If it goes wrong we can recover easier and there won’t be a decade of cuts again.

And change the fucking political system fptp is wank.

 

[Ban-jani]

Those premium lines are a bit expensive they?



So I'm reliably informed.

Now you’re showing your age, Babestation is very 2005.

 

[Blue Hefner]

I had C4 on from 7 all the way through. They said on there it was a climate debate and he hadn’t responded yet, not that he’d declined or pulled out.

Could you have read something from someone partisan that had twisted that maybe? Or have I got it wrong?

I read it on here, I can’t remember the poster. It just read that he had pulled out of the debate tonight

Either way, he’s the PM. In my opinion he should be front and centre. But they want to put him in the background so he doesn’t fuck up and also give the nations living rooms a rest from ‘her Brexit done’. Small mercies and all that

 

[Fame Monster]

ok but there must be bloody someone who agrees that those who are disabled or poor need support but those who create wealth and have ambition should be supported not treated like criminals

jim Radcliffe who Corbyn hates was a council estate kid and built a large global chemical company. He should be someone labour is using as an example of social mobility instead they are making out that he is a criminal.

That’s just bonkers.

Any of the following (as part of the 172) had the foresight to see that Corbyn wouldn't get elected (and it looks like they'll be proven right twice) so it stands to reason that they should at least have a clue what the electorate want.

Former shadow cabinet and shadow ministers Hilary Benn, Angela Eagle, Seema Malhotra, John Healey, Heidi Alexander, Lucy Powell, Owen Smith, Lord Falconer, Lisa Nandy, Maria Eagle, Chris Bryant, Lilian Greenwood, Vernon Coaker, Ian Murray, Nia Griffith, Kerry McCarthy, Kate Green, Gloria De Piero, Karl Turner, Luciana Berger, Pat Glass, Nick Smith, Sir Keir Starmer, Steve Reed, Thangam Debbonaire, Yvonne Fovargue, Diana Johnson, Toby Perkins, Anna Turley, Alex Cunningham, Wayne David, Roberta Blackman-Woods, Jenny Champman, Susan Elan Jones, Nick Thomas-Symonds, Jack Dromey, Sharon Hodgson, Melanie Onn, Richard Burden, Nic Dakin, Mike Kane, Andy Slaughter, Alan Whitehead, Andrew Gwynne, Barbara Keeley, Lyn Brown, Sarah Champion, Christina Rees, Clive Efford, Kevin Brennan, Liz McInnes, Paul Blomfield, Mary Glindon, Stephen Kinnock, Chris Matheson, Neil Coyle, Jess Phillips, Karin Smyth, Ruth Smeeth, Matthew Pennycook, Gerald Jones, and Colleen Fletcher. Source: Daily Mirror.

 

[lancs blue]

ok but there must be bloody someone who agrees that those who are disabled or poor need support but those who create wealth and have ambition should be supported not treated like criminals

jim Radcliffe who Corbyn hates was a council estate kid and built a large global chemical company. He should be someone labour is using as an example of social mobility instead they are making out that he is a criminal.

That’s just bonkers.

Maybe it has something to do with him buggering off to Monaco to reduce his personal tax bill having previously moved his company's HQ to Switzerland to save £100m in company taxes. All that under a Tory government so he clearly has the best interests of the UK and its people at heart, how many disabled people could be supported by £100m a year? His Middlesbrough plant has repeatedly been in trouble for breaking pollution limits though I'm not sure how anyone could tell if Middlesbrough got more polluted.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

False equivalence in the “unbiased” media. It’s why Brexit has still not been stopped and a large contributor to the sorry state of the country.

It's that quote about if one person says it's raining and the other says it isn't, it's the media's job to go out and see which is right, not report both positions.

I don't have any problem with them critiquing the manifesto's economic commitments. In fact I'd fully expect them to. But to use an American Libertarian group to do that from a purely ideological position, without making clear who they were, rather than having an unbiased economist who would have said "Well this is good but this could be bad". It just presented 2 extremes instead of something that could be seen as shades of grey.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I haven't got a fcukin clue

We know already Len.

 

[urban genie]

I don’t know. I thought I just read that he has pulled out of the leaders debate on C4, I assumed it was the normal format. Either way, I take it the Tories have a short/medium and long term plan for climate change so why can’t he go on and talk about that?

It was the planned debate between him and jeremy





Although a general debate the focus Ch4 wanted was on the climate crisis.

But as johnson has niether a clue or gives a shit about such I am not suprised he didn't want to do it.
He has one topic brexit, he is making sure not to talk about anything else.

Either way he should have done it but is too cowardly to answer questions he doesn't like.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Another hung parliament and then a desperate attempt at some form of coalition. Elections and referendum abound is what we have to look forward to.

Austerity
Brexit
Scotland
Northern Ireland
Morally defective leaders
Opportunist marginal leaders trying grab a slice of the action
Fantasy polIcies from the left
Outright lies from the right
Ignoring half the population from the middle

If the people elects one party to rule with all this going on my flabber will be gasted.

If the Tories get in I will be ashamed of this country.

Just get Brexit done and it will all go away - I just read it in the Sun

 

[Vic]

Don't forget that Labour's manefesto includes an inquiry that would also look at the “legal right of public interest defence for journalists”, the first stage of Labour imposing state control over the media - as all Marxist political parties do once they get into power.

Have I got this right? Labour says we will consider having a right to a public interest defence for journalists (but for printing what?) and some are twisting that to mean taking away a right that exists? That's pure 1984.

The Tories legislated to take away the public interest defence for breaching the Official Secrets Act.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Maybe it has something to do with him buggering off to Monaco to reduce his personal tax bill having previously moved his company's HQ to Switzerland to save £100m in company taxes. All that under a Tory government so he clearly has the best interests of the UK and its people at heart, how many disabled people could be supported by £100m a year? His Middlesbrough plant has repeatedly been in trouble for breaking pollution limits though I'm not sure how anyone could tell if Middlesbrough got more polluted.

But...but...but Labour want to raise taxes and scare the likes of Jim off - the Tories lowered corporation tax to collect more corporation tax and keep Jim here - and...and...Brexit Brexit - get it done.....