General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Cheesy]

The biggest porky of them all - from all the parties - must surely be the "95% of people won't be worse off" bollocks.

Does ANYONE actually believe that horseshit? Anyone at all?

Yeah, they do.

It's bonkers.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I don't blame her to be honesty. Tory MP's have been sold down the river trying to sell the manifesto of lies and misery. She's in the impossible situation of either trying polish a turd and stick to Tory slogans or just give up and say fuck it live on TV.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yeah, they do.

It's bonkers.

Not many would be my guess. Anyone who lives at home on minimum wage *might* not be worse off, but other than that, *everyone* would be. Anyone with a mortgage or paying rent would be hit terribly.

Most people spend most of their money on housing themselves and feeding themselves. If you make the two biggest items of expenditure much more expensive, then It does not take rocket scientists to work out that most people would be much worse off, does it.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

The biggest porky of them all - from all the parties - must surely be the "95% of people won't be worse off" bollocks.

Does ANYONE actually believe that horseshit? Anyone at all?

I agree with that. In fact, Corbyn’s biggest mistake is not telling everyone that they will be ‘worse off’ from a tax point of view because spending and reinvesting will cost money. It also gives everyone a stake instead of thinking stuff is free.
The other thing we need to do is to tax our citizens wherever they live, like the states do. The biggest flaw the EU model has is allowing tax competition within it. Once we follow the US model, provision can then be made for a wealth tax, which is far more appealing than constant increases in income tax.

 

[Metal Biker]

This and hence the fact that anyone who votes for either is endorsing the lies and saying its ok to lie to us.

Infact they are saying "yes we are thick enough to fall for it again".

For me, politics is the essence of the public admitting "I know the politicians I support lies to me about certain things... but I don't really care because I support them". That's fine, I just wish people would be more honest about their support and stop pretending to vote on the "virtuousness" of their chosen candidates.

 

[Metal Biker]

Not many would be my guess. Anyone who lives at home on minimum wage *might* not be worse off, but other than that, *everyone* would be. Anyone with a mortgage or paying rent would be hit terribly.

Most people spend most of their money on housing themselves and feeding themselves. If you make the two biggest items of expenditure much more expensive, then It does not take rocket scientists to work out that most people would be much worse off, does it.

I'm one of those going to benefit most from the proposed changes, but apparently i'm not meant to care about others situations because I benefit from the changes.

I'm meant to be quiet and accept it all because a dissenting voice exposes how unfair the changes can be.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

We live in a post truth era

 

[Chippy_boy]

I agree with that. In fact, Corbyn’s biggest mistake is not telling everyone that they will be ‘worse off’ from a tax point of view because spending and reinvesting will cost money. It also gives everyone a stake instead of thinking stuff is free.
The other thing we need to do is to tax our citizens wherever they live, like the states do. The biggest flaw the EU model has is allowing tax competition within it. Once we follow the US model, provision can then be made for a wealth tax, which is far more appealing than constant increases in income tax.

In the main I agree (not sure about the wealth tax idea though).

But i think if we are to raise more money for public services through taxation, then the 20% basic rate needs to go up. Ordinary working people cannot expect to pay for excellent hospitals, schools, police, armed forces etc whilst paying less than 1/5th of their income in tax.

We should IMO raise the personal allowance - so that the low paid are not adversely affected and then raise the basic rate by a penny or two or three. Even 25p if necessary.

Then the average earner would pay only a little more and the better than average earner, quite a bit more. But since there's countless millions in the £25k to £55k income bracket, it would raise lots of money. The high earners might not mind the 1p or so on the higher rate as well, if they felt we are all making an extra contribution. What sticks in the craw for higher earners at the moment I think is that they are already contributing vastly more, and are now being targeted by Labour to pay yet more still, whilst no-one else is.

Someone on £120k a year already pays 11 times more tax than someone on average income of £30k. Is 11 times more not a decent contribution already?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

No it doesn't. They're both as bad as each other.

They’re both bad, but they aren’t as bad as each other.

 

[purplenose]

For me, politics is the essence of the public admitting "I know the politicians I support lies to me about certain things... but I don't really care because I support them". That's fine, I just wish people would be more honest about their support and stop pretending to vote on the "virtuousness" of their chosen candidates.

Oh yes there are a few holier than thou incidents on this thread. When infact as some have said the main two parties are as bad as each other. Rotten to the chore the pair of them. I cannot and will not vote for either.

Anyone who chooses to do so may or may not examine their conscience but in my opinion anyone crossing Labour or Conservative on the forthcoming ballot paper have no right whatsoever to trumpet virtue and morals toward any single other person regardless of their views beliefs and behaviours.

 

[Len Rum]

I don't blame her to be honesty. [Nicky Morgan ].

I do.
She's not standing at the next election.
So why go on telly peddling Tory lies when you don't have to.
No sympathy.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Anyone who chooses to do so may or may not examine their conscience but in my opinion anyone crossing Labour or Conservative on the forthcoming ballot paper have no right whatsoever to trumpet virtue and morals toward any single other person regardless of their views beliefs and behaviours.

I think the next poster after the above is a fine example.

 

[mcfc1632]

is the correct answer .

equal rights and gender discrimination works both ways.

I am replying to you and by extension @Chippy_boy because I cannot be arsed to get into an exchange with those that in their frustration to find 'stones to throw' are making these assertions without realising just how weak and silly their points are - and therefore how they come across.

You are the ones clearly supporting equal treatment.

Perversely it was in about 1997 that it became clear to the government just how significant the 'pension time-bomb' was and how there had to be serious revision - Labour were in power at the time and for years afterwards and prevaricated and delayed on taking further action - but of course they (sensibly) chose not to do anything to reverse/amend the 1995 act.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I do.
She's not standing at the next election.
So why go on telly peddling Tory lies when you don't have to.
No sympathy.

Oh aye, forgot she wasn't standing. Bollocks to her.

 

[inbetween]

Not many would be my guess. Anyone who lives at home on minimum wage *might* not be worse off, but other than that, *everyone* would be. Anyone with a mortgage or paying rent would be hit terribly.

Most people spend most of their money on housing themselves and feeding themselves. If you make the two biggest items of expenditure much more expensive, then It does not take rocket scientists to work out that most people would be much worse off, does it.

All Labour plans to do is to begin a vicious circle of punishing companies, landlords etc so that private ownership becomes untenable.

They will deliberately run down companies and ownership or make them impossible to run through the unions so that they can take for the state and impose control.

The fluffy 'stop poverty' and 'modest tax increase' slogans which overly the extreme radicalism of these nutjobs is the biggest lie and con of the whole campaign.

 

[Blue Hefner]

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

In the main I agree (not sure about the wealth tax idea though).

But i think if we are to raise more money for public services through taxation, then the 20% basic rate needs to go up. Ordinary working people cannot expect to pay for excellent hospitals, schools, police, armed forces etc whilst paying less than 1/5th of their income in tax.

We should IMO raise the personal allowance - so that the low paid are not adversely affected and then raise the basic rate by a penny or two or three. Even 25p if necessary.

Then the average earner would pay only a little more and the better than average earner, quite a bit more. But since there's countless millions in the £25k to £55k income bracket, it would raise lots of money. The high earners might not mind the 1p or so on the higher rate as well, if they felt we are all making an extra contribution. What sticks in the craw for higher earners at the moment I think is that they are already contributing vastly more, and are now being targeted by Labour to pay yet more still, whilst no-one else is.

Someone on £120k a year already pays 11 times more tax than someone on average income of £30k. Is 11 times more not a decent contribution already?

For sure a wealth tax needs some thought but there are so many ways to offset income that it’s got to be a good idea.
I’m not necessarily advocating this but UK millionaires have a net worth of over £6.5 trillion. The UK net debt, which everyone keeps saying is holding us back, is about £1.8 trillion. Could be a solution there if people think a bit more laterally than just doing the same things over and over.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

All Labour plans to do is to begin a vicious circle of punishing companies, landlords etc so that private ownership becomes untenable.

They will deliberately run down companies and ownership or make them impossible to run through the unions so that they can take for the state and impose control.

The fluffy 'stop poverty' and 'modest tax increase' slogans which overly the extreme radicalism of these nutjobs is the biggest lie and con of the whole campaign.

don’t forget when John McDonnell has his finger on the on off switch to the uk broadband button.

single state controlled and operated broadband sounds like a great way to control the economy and the system as you please.

don’t agree to that pay rise , hey john turn that broadband off .

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

probably because he wants a hung parliament so we stay in the eu, which is his latest crusade since he failed miserably as the Middle East peace envoy.

I expect he will be being paid by the eu for all this bollox he spouts.

 

[Chippy_boy]

All Labour plans to do is to begin a vicious circle of punishing companies, landlords etc so that private ownership becomes untenable.

They will deliberately run down companies and ownership or make them impossible to run through the unions so that they can take for the state and impose control.

The fluffy 'stop poverty' and 'modest tax increase' slogans which overly the extreme radicalism of these nutjobs is the biggest lie and con of the whole campaign.

Agreed. Just how long after a Labour victory do people imagine it would take Mccluskey and co to be calling for huge and unaffordable pay rises and strike action to get them? 10 minutes, or do you think he'd manage to wait until December 13th?