General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
Chippy_boy said:
No, it's called "theft".

Money obtained perfectly legally is YOUR money. If it has been obtained illegally then you would have a case, and indeed you might argue about whether the rules as to what is legal, need changing.

But once someone has legally acquired what is theirs, taking it off them without their consent is not "tax", it is theft.
Click to expand...
Article 1 of the First Protocol of the ECHR says differently.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, it's called theft. Governments cannot simply turn around and say "you know that money you acquired perfectly legally, we are now simply going to take some of it off you because we can". That is theft.

I am increasingly dismayed by your true colours being ever clearer. You are borderline communist in some of your views Bob. You hid it well for a while, but no longer. What you describe could be taken straight out of Das Kapital.
Click to expand...

They do. Again it’s called tax. Monies I earn legally the Govt take their cut and call it tax.

I’m just pointing out how tax works and the leeway Govts have.

Comrade.
 
The Tory manifesto (or lack of one) just shows the disdain that Johnson has for this country. His flagship policy of recruiting 50k nurses is just bullshit on steriods, with 19k already recruited 12k from overseas 14k from under graduates and 5k from degree apprenticeships. It just baffles me to think how thick people are to take this in its not even crafted as being disingenuous is just bare faced lies. I get the fact that he doesn't commit the same faux pas as his predecessor but this is just a joke.


Still won't tell us how much Brexit costs despite knowing full well what it does just like the Russian interfeerance report. Know he basically wants a blank cheque to do a Brexit deal and run the country for the next 5 years because he hasn't got a fucking clue.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Article 1 of the First Protocol of the ECHR says differently.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

"Protocol 1, Article 1 protects your right to enjoy your property peacefully
Property can include things like land, houses, objects you own, shares, licences, leases, patents, money, pensions and certain types of welfare benefits. A public authority cannot take away your property, or place restrictions on its use, without very good reason."

Taking money off people "because we can" would surely be challenged as not being a very good reason. Furthermore,

"There are some situations in which public authorities can take things you own or restrict the way you use them. This is only possible where the authority can show that its action is lawful and necessary for the public interest. If your property is taken away, you should be entitled to compensation."

So the government takes £200,000 off Mr Smith, who is then entitled to £200,000 in compensation. How would that work???

There's much debate in the US about the legality of wealth taxes and whether they would violate their constitution. I think we could expect similar argument here.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I disagree.

"Protocol 1, Article 1 protects your right to enjoy your property peacefully
Property can include things like land, houses, objects you own, shares, licences, leases, patents, money, pensions and certain types of welfare benefits. A public authority cannot take away your property, or place restrictions on its use, without very good reason."

Taking money off people "because we can" would surely be challenged as not being a very good reason. Furthermore,

"There are some situations in which public authorities can take things you own or restrict the way you use them. This is only possible where the authority can show that its action is lawful and necessary for the public interest. If your property is taken away, you should be entitled to compensation."

So the government takes £200,000 off Mr Smith, who is then entitled to £200,000 in compensation. How would that work???

There's much debate in the US about the legality of wealth taxes and whether they would violate their constitution. I think we could expect similar argument here.
Click to expand...
I suspect the public interest argument would trump any other, in terms of legality. Stamp duty is a de facto tax on property. It’s analogous imo.
 
BobKowalski said:
They do. Again it’s called tax. Monies I earn legally the Govt take their cut and call it tax.

I’m just pointing out how tax works and the leeway Govts have.

Comrade.
Click to expand...
You're just defending the indefensible, Comrade. There is a very clear distinction between taxing earnings - which is perfectly allowable under all rules; taking the proceeds of wealth - also perfectly fine; as opposed to just taking someone's wealth off them, which is IMO absolutely NOT fine, it fact it is abhorrent and very possibly illegal.
 
Chippy_boy said:
You're just defending the indefensible, Comrade. There is a very clear distinction between taxing earnings - which is perfectly allowable under all rules; taking the proceeds of wealth - also perfectly fine; as opposed to just taking someone's wealth off them, which is IMO absolutely NOT fine, it fact it is abhorrent and very possibly illegal.
Click to expand...

Im providing an explanation not a defence. The confiscation of wealth or assets without due cause and outside of the rule of law would be illegal. But a wealth tax levied in accordance with tax rules lawfully passed would not. Currently local Govt levies a wealth tax on me based on the property I own. I pay more than some families pay. This is irksome but it is not illegal.
 
Labour are stopping the 25% discount off council tax for single householders. They sneaked that one in didn't they?
 
Just received some Conservative election literature through the post.
Covers both local and national issues.
Wonder if anyone else has received something similar?
There appears to be one slight foxes paw in it :
" Don't risk FIVE MORE years of uncertainty,delay and gridlock" ( the capitals are mine).
Err.....since 2014? When guess who has been in power.
 
BobKowalski said:
Im providing an explanation not a defence. The confiscation of wealth or assets without due cause and outside of the rule of law would be illegal. But a wealth tax levied in accordance with tax rules lawfully passed would not. Currently local Govt levies a wealth tax on me based on the property I own. I pay more than some families pay. This is irksome but it is not illegal.
Click to expand...
Your assertion that it not be illegal is noted and disagreed with. The courts would end up deciding.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
It is directly based on the value of the proerty, so I say it is.
Click to expand...
You can say what you like, but you'd be mistaken. Stamp duty applies to all sorts of transactions, be they property or financial. in the case of a transfer of ownership of property it is a tax on the transaction, not on the property. Historically it was a tax levied when the transaction paperwork was processed, i.e. stamped, hence the name. With no transaction taking place there is no stamp duty, therefore it is just plain wrong to assert that the duty is a tax on property. No transaction, no stamp duty.
 
inbetween said:
All Labour plans to do is to begin a vicious circle of punishing companies, landlords etc so that private ownership becomes untenable.

They will deliberately run down companies and ownership or make them impossible to run through the unions so that they can take for the state and impose control.

The fluffy 'stop poverty' and 'modest tax increase' slogans which overly the extreme radicalism of these nutjobs is the biggest lie and con of the whole campaign.
Click to expand...
And so say all of us (sensible ones)
 
BlueAnorak said:
That's the reason the policy is in the Tory manifesto it will be popular. I've spent nearly £500 on hospital parking over the last two years with my wifes ailments and hospital stays. I now call it my "Hospital Parking Tax" for that is what it is.
Click to expand...
Looking at it in more depth it would only be for certain patients and not to help staff,it's a con,i'm sorry you have had to spend so much time at the hospital and best wishes to your wife
 
karen7 said:
The RCN are never going to call it lies,they are not that sort of body
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but it's really not a lie is it. You might question how achievable it is, and where the nurses would come from, but it is no more a lie than half of Labour's manifesto which also raise serious questions about whether and how they can be achieved.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Fair enough, but it's really not a lie is it. You might question how achievable it is, and where the nurses would come from, but it is no more a lie than half of Labour's manifesto which also raise serious questions about whether and how they can be achieved.
Click to expand...
Boris is selling 50,000 new nurses,19,000 already being in training are not new,also he is going to take measures to stop nurses leaving and invite some back,he has no control over either of those unless he gives them free parking and a pay rise and he isn't offering either ,getting 12,500 from abroad is not a given either,they have to pay 600 quid to come,have to have extra training to bring them up to UK standards so his promise on this is bollocks,he knows most people will just accept him shouting 50,000 more and take it as gospel,same with new drs and police,it's equally a lie if you look into it in the same way
40 new hospitals has turned out to be 6 refurbished
Saying labour lie as well is not really the point,no-one lies like boris does,he has modelled himself on trump,shout,wave your arms around,bluster and hope no-one looks at the detail
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top