General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Chippy_boy]

Pretty sure those fearmongering know full well there won't be a Corbyn majority and his policies would be tempered by whoever partner them in government, it may even mean Corbyn standing down. Think the fearmongering rhetoric is raised to help justify voting for Johnson when he's hardly better than Corbyn.

Who knows? All I keep hearing from the Labour side is "you can never trust the polls". William Hill have a Labour majority today at 16/1. Would you hold a 16 slot revolver to your head? I would not.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Who knows? All I keep hearing from the Labour side is "you can never trust the polls". William Hill have a Labour majority today at 16/1. Would you hold a 16 slot revolver to your head? I would not.

Bollocks! I've been predicting a fat fool victory from day one and there are other astute, dashingly handsome, left wingers in here who have done likewise.

 

[Len Rum]

In fairness there is a lot of that going around.

Tory Manifesto 2019.

‘Brexit will be great. No we won’t tell you how much our idea of Brexit will cost but here is twenty sovs for fixing all the potholes in the country. Vote for me.

The End’

I keep asking the chipster @Chippy_boy if he can provide the Government's impact assessments of Brexit (no deal/Canada etc) but so far he has failed to respond.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Bollocks! I've been predicting a fat fool victory from day one and there are other astute, dashingly handsome, left wingers in here who have done likewise.

I did say 16/1 Fumble, not 1/16.

 

[mcfc1632]

ridiculous hyperbole

George, stop being silly, I can read the Mail online elsewhere.

Simply inconvenient truths - I can understand why they are uncomfortable to you - you are just hoping that a lid can be get on things and the electorate duped

 

[mcfc1632]

Synonyms for disastrous

• adverse
• calamitous
• cataclysmic
• catastrophic
• destructive
• dire
• dreadful
• fatal
• fateful
• harmful
• ill-fated
• ruinous
• terrible
• tragic
• unfavorable
• unfortunate
• cataclysmal
• hapless
• ill-starred
• luckless
• unlucky
• unpropitious
• untoward

don't even begin to capture the full horror of this country's reward if Labour gets elected.

Correct - it would be a full on nightmare.

 

[Len Rum]

Correct - it would be a full on nightmare.

No deal Brexit yeah.
Not sure of the impact of a Canada type deal..
I can't find the Government's impact assessments.
Do you have them to hand?

 

[Postman Pep]

Not a chance, it's a Swinson bozo that'll be getting my tick if they keep their revoke promise. Corbyn is indeed a hollow man - that's the problem. His manifesto is a tissue of lies concealing the brute fact that if the union controlled hard left seize the levers of power they'll certainly launch a 5 year Marxist attack on global capitalism. Our country will be used as a disposable weapon in their antique idelogical war and will be irreparably damaged as a result. If you want to live in a culturally and economically eviscerated totalitarian state vote for Jezzer - no need to move to Venezuela.

Lies and empty smears are de rigeur on here and always execrable.

 

[TheBlueDune]

Pretty sure those fearmongering know full well there won't be a Corbyn majority and his policies would be tempered by whoever partner them in government, it may even mean Corbyn standing down. Think the fearmongering rhetoric is raised to help justify voting for Johnson when he's hardly better than Corbyn.

Kier Starmer is my bet for next Labour leader. Assuming Momentum don't find a way to block him. Angela Rayner as deputy.

Pity is, it won't matter. Corbyn fine as chairman of the local parish council when everybody's opinions matter. But not when real leadership is needed.

Normally, in a general election, in no more than five years there's the chance to have a course correction, as in 1997. But now it looks like the cliff edge will be jumped off by the masses with no way to climb back up.

"Rejoin Party" anyone?

 

[Chippy_boy]

ridiculous hyperbole

No, mate, it really is not.

John McDonnell was asked point blank by the BBC last year whether the overthrow of capitalism is now his job and his reply was "Yes it is".

That is potentially the future Chancellor of the Exchequer talking. Do I need to remind you that capitalism is the system of wealth generation which - in very stark contrast to socialism - has been successful the world over for the past 200 years?

What do you think McDonnell means when he says he wants to overthrow capitalism? He talks about the need to make "systemic change", i.e. to make sure things are FUBAR. You know the acronym? Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition. He's 68. This is his last chance saloon. He wants to make sure whatever changes he makes - if by some catastrophe he finds himself in No.11 - cannot be unpicked.

I just don't think anyone other than the odd Marxist on our forum has really thought about just how much damage this guy could do. Brexit is a piffling hiccup compared to the utter destruction he could wreak. Genuinely, very, very genuinely I fear for mass rioting in the streets, widespread civil unrest and a total breakdown of law and order. He described the smashing up of Millbank as "the best of our movement". He's openly called for violent uprising, whilst in opposition. He will backing unions demanding 30%, 40%, 50% pay rises and encouraging widespread strike action. He WANTS the country to fall into chaos, so he can gain popular support for a Marxist-style regime. That is his mission.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Simply inconvenient truths - I can understand why they are uncomfortable to you - you are just hoping that a lid can be get on things and the electorate duped

The electorate duped? It’s been systematically duped for the last three years.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The electorate duped? It’s been systematically duped for the last three years.

About what? And by whom?

Genuine question, btw!

 

[Mike D]

Dont be a ****.

That strike still splits my family and others.

Mate you can't wipe out or history that's how things were

 

[inbetween]

IFS summary via Sky. Pressure on local Govt finances is huge. Even under Labour it’s going to be difficult. Under Tories Christ knows.

‘Local govt finding isn’t exactly one of the main issues in #ge2019. But interesting @TheIFS briefing suggests given the Conservatives have allocated no extra money for local govt at all in its manifesto, council tax is more likely to rise if they win. Background: cuts to local govt (when population growth is taken into account) is 24% per person.In most deprived areas that rises to 31% (spending was higher in those areas to begin with and remains 1.3x as high compared to least deprived, though that fig was 1.6 in 2010).

The Conservatives have proposed no extra money for local govt in their manifesto save for pot holes. Therefore IFS says council tax would have to increase by 4% a year every year and it still wouldn’t be enough to keep up with rising demand for local govt services. Labour meanwhile propose £13bn of new money for existing local govt services, which would meet demand needs even with no council tax increases. Although even with this huge injection of cash, we’d still be below 2010 funding levels.

Lab also proposed £7bn for local authorities to pay for social care for certain over 75s. IFS casts doubts as to whether that will be enough (esp given their living wage proposals) and of course, whether the tax increases elsewhere will be enough to pay for everything. So this election in a nutshell. No detail at all from one party and no sense of what they’d do about the problem (or acknowledgement it even exists). Lots of details/ideas from the other but sizeable doubts over credibility of the medicine, given scale of commitments elsewhere.’

So we have two choices essentially confirmed by the IFS.

One party that isn't proposing increases to local funding but council tax increases are always open to councils, it's every man for themself otherwise.

The other party is offering to fund councils without raising council tax but it might not make any difference and plus they can't explain where they will find the money.

Jesus it's like picking Liverpool or United to win the league.

I find it interesting that the great socialist party isn't proposing council tax rises given tax is all about participation in society.

 

[meltonblue]

It’s

About what? And by whom?

Genuine question, btw!

Lots and by all of them tbh. You only need to look at the past few weeks to see evidence of outright lies being used by politicians which are then only really scrutinised once they’ve already done what they were designed for and influenced the perception of voters.

It’s an appalling state currently and getting worse as they’re being validated in doing it more often now than before by willing supporters, both in the press and in the general public.

 

[mancityvstoke]

 

[Chippy_boy]

Interesting thread on tbe NHS. Everyone should click and read.

Missed this.

Since I have a brain, I can categorically say that the above tweet is unmitigated bollocks.

1. US firms can ALREADY bid for NHS outsource contracts. Have we "sold the NHS" already some years ago? No.
2. US firms ALREADY supply us with drugs. Have we "sold the NHS" some years ago? No.
3. We would in any event not award additional contracts UNLESS IN OUR INTERESTS to do so.
4. Even if they were able to bid for more work, or more drugs supply, then that does not mean the NHS Is "up for sale".
5. The government PAYS third parties for drugs and services. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, Mark, you utter moron.
6. The tweeter is a complete imbecile at best.

 

[xgorton]

The Tory leads crumbling,hung parliament and another Brexit vote on it's way.Bluemoon Labour vote going up as well.

 

[inbetween]

I think the fearmongering about a Labour government is a bit excessive. They'd have to get everything through parliament, not least of all the moderates in their own party. What I'm personally hoping for is a Labour led minority which would put the brakes on the more extreme stuff, but actually still see some progressive policies in comparison with the last ten years of shite we've put up with.

A coalition will be extremely difficult for Labour because the power is shifting now to a two party race where the Tories will likely be the largest party.

The Lib Dems have collapsed and the Greens etc are doing no better than they usually do.

The key for Corbyn is the SNP but that will surely have to mean Scottish independence and Sturgeon will demand an indy referendum before any EU referendum.

We could have a situation where Labour are in coalition with the SNP, Scotland leaves and that gives the Tories a majority!

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Missed this.

Since I have a brain, I can categorically say that the above tweet is unmitigated bollocks.

1. US firms can ALREADY bid for NHS outsource contracts. Have we "sold the NHS" already some years ago? No.
2. US firms ALREADY supply us with drugs. Have we "sold the NHS" some years ago? No.
3. We would in any event not award additional contracts UNLESS IN OUR INTERESTS to do so.
4. Even if they were able to bid for more work, or more drugs supply, then that does not mean the NHS Is "up for sale".
5. The government PAYS third parties for drugs and services. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, Mark, you utter moron.
6. The tweeter is a complete imbecile at best.

but he works as an investor?