General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I have a feeling of weariness that come Friday, nothing will be settled!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Pathetic, ****,bullshit, fuck. You are one angry man.

Some posters can do that to you.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

If and it's a big if the public decide to overlook the way the Tories have run the country the last 9 years, and decide that Brexit is more important than hospitals, schools,the elderly,the homeless then they, the voters have been had.

The comfort blankets are being knitted in advance now.

 

[BobKowalski]

...
Antisemitism in the Labour party has been rife for years and fuck all done about it, because of the **** leading the party. And instead of accepting it, all we get from you lot is this utter bullshit of trying to suggest some parallel with the Tories, where no such parallel exists. Have there been cases of Islamophobia in the Tory party? I don't know - probably I would guess. I would guess there's been cases of it in the Labour party as well. But nothing like on the same scale as you full well know.

But to try to deflect from Labour's problems like you lot have done consistently is appalling. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Your concern and commitment to finding out is an inspiration to us all.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

but actually it could be good in the long run.

Brexit will get done so that will be put to bed ( for now )

it will mean that labour will have moved so far left there will be proof that their traditional voters have left them.

Corbyn momentum and the communist angry hateful mob that has infected the party will hopefully be sidelined and a moderate sensible left of centre party can again emerge in the Labour Party and people will flock back to them. As it is badly needed in our politics.

The problem for Labour is the members, if they lose this election these fruitcakes could install another like him.
If they do, then it's ta ta to Labour.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Your concern and commitment to finding out is an inspiration to us all.

What, we're all investigative reporters now are we Bob? Well admittedly you seem to like spending hours scouring the internet for whatever snippet of anti-Tory bullshit you can find.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Quite a lot of people - i.e. those that are criticising - are, IMO, simply displaying their frustration at the opportunity lost for some event to occur that could damage the Conservatives ahead of the vote on Thursday. I understand that and would probably feel the same way if this was Corbyn 10 points ahead and refusing to attend events where there was a prospect that he could be damaged.

They do miss key facts though - again as I likely would in a different circumstance.

These televised debates are not the historical norm and are in fact quite a recent part of GEs and of course the TV companies want them to become entrenched/enshrined - not just 1, 2 or 3 Leader debates but an ever increasing number

So it is easy to think that they are essential from the perspective of the media and those supporting a party other than the one 'out in front' - but, from the perspective of that party, what is in it for them? and in this example, as you say, "Why should anyone attend a 5 to 1 beat-up, especially when fronted by the politically biased Channel 4, is beyond me..."

This is an high-stakes political campaign undertaken in a world where fewer and fewer people watch live TV but the opportunity/risk of a snippet from a show that makes someone look bad would become quickly viral and do enormous damage is real and something to be carefully considered and mitigated.

Let's face it there would be every chance that Andrew Neil could create a good few clips/soundbites that Johnson and his 'handlers' would badly regret and which could make Johnson look really bad and do damage to the election outcome.

Considering how a clip can do enormous damage or help - just think how much would Corby/Labour have benefitted amongst the youth vote from the 10secs recording of 'Oh Jeremy Corby' being sung at Glastonbury as an example.

There will be some experienced and savvy people carefully calculating the risk and opportunity presented by each of these events and making decisions on that basis. There is not some 'Queensberry rules' that are required to be confirmed to - Johnson's handlers will be making very specific calculations based on the assessment of risk/opportunity.

Re the Neil interview, yes, there is a risk of non-attendance causing damage to the Johnson reputation (that is an ever-present danger when he speaks - lol) - but it is likely that the risk is far higher that the next day millions of people who had not bothered to watch would be viewing the short cringeworthy extract clips.

So I expect the judgement call is that the risk of attending is far higher than that of not attending - so best to implement a defence - like saying ".... I have already answered all these questions in many other interviews...."

People are just frustrated - I understand that - and the clock is ticking without the bounce for Corbyn that happened last time so the frustration gets worse

I think you're right.

The attempt by the broadcast media to make this leader v leader is rather pathetic and needs to be legislated against. This country is ruled as a Parliamentary democracy NOT by a President. As such you vote for the party, not the person. I want to hear the other members of the Government speak about their briefs and debate the issues WRT their briefs.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Indeed, as Red Ken never tires of telling us - the evil USA did to Chavez as their enemy exactly what they will do to us as their friend. Only Jezzer can save us now.

Whenever socialism fails, just point fingers at the Yanks.

 

[robbieh]

The comfort blankets are being knitted in advance now.

Possibly.

I was/am hoping that the public can see the objective reality of their day to day lives and who is actually responsible for it.

Not the EU and not Corbyn. For the majority of the media to suggest otherwise is a game designed to enrich their owners and other members of the economic class to which they belong.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Possibly.

I was/am hoping that the public can see the objective reality of their day to day lives and who is actually responsible for it.

Not the EU and not Corbyn. For the majority of the media to suggest otherwise is a game designed to enrich their owners and other members of the economic class to which they belong.

Somehow, I just knew it would be the media that was responsible.
Eventually, you just need to accept that people do not see the world as you do.
Hopefully by Friday.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Antisemitism in the Labour party has been rife for years and fuck all done about it, because of the **** leading the party. And instead of accepting it, all we get from you lot is this utter bullshit of trying to suggest some parallel with the Tories, where no such parallel exists. Have there been cases of Islamophobia in the Tory party? I don't know - probably I would guess. I would guess there's been cases of it in the Labour party as well. But nothing like on the same scale as you full well know.

But to try to deflect from Labour's problems like you lot have done consistently is appalling. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

It really is comparing a puddle of water to an absolute torrent.

Here is the redacted conclusion to the JLM report - You probably have to register to download - It really is staggering stuff. The Labour party is now run by the SA.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Somehow, I just knew it would be the media that was responsible.
Eventually, you just need to accept that people do not see the world as you do.
Hopefully by Friday.

The brightest are always ahead of the curve.

three months from now they will.

 

[BobKowalski]

What, we're all investigative reporters now are we Bob? Well admittedly you seem to like spending hours scouring the internet for whatever snippet of anti-Tory bullshit you can find.

This morning I read The Times and The Atlantic. Took me twenty minutes. And that includes time to make a cup of tea.

 

[blueinsa]

Somehow, I just knew it would be the media that was responsible.
Eventually, you just need to accept that people do not see the world as you do.
Hopefully by Friday.

Yanks....media....Trump....Yanks.....Tory twats.....brexshiteers.....Yanks.....media......Billionaires.....

 

[Metal Biker]

The social democrat model has failed all over the world. It has not been able to moderate capitalism or halt the rise of the far right.
Which is why we are where we are.

The rise of the far right has been as a result of the far left shitting all over the current moderate capitalist model (which many people approve of), and the rise has been a backlash to it by those wishing to exploit people's anger.

When you've got the opinion that someone who approves of capitalism, doesn't like socialism and holds a different opinion to you means they are racist/stupid/fascist etc, THAT is why we are where we are now.

 

[robbieh]

Somehow, I just knew it would be the media that was responsible.
Eventually, you just need to accept that people do not see the world as you do.
Hopefully by Friday.

The media have their interests to protect just like you and I. So I'm not blaming them, just pointing out that their interests are probably not served by a redistributionist government.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think you're right.

The attempt by the broadcast media to make this leader v leader is rather pathetic and needs to be legislated against. This country is ruled as a Parliamentary democracy NOT by a President. As such you vote for the party, not the person. I wont to hear the other members of the Government speak about their briefs and debate the issues WRT their briefs.

The formats of these televised sessions are quite limited as well.

I do not want to vote for Boris because of all the wonderful things he will do. Far from it. The overriding - vastly overriding - reason to vote Tory, is because of all of the utterly terrible things Corbyn promises to do.

And if Boris does an Andrew Neil interview, there is no opportunity for Boris to highlight this. None. He will get asked about trust and honestly, maybe about Islamophobia, about 50,000 nurses and 40 hospitals. But there will be no discussion at all about THE most important thing: Corbyn and McDonnell are dangerous Marxists who would wreck our country.

Is there anyone stupid enough to imagine that the changes McDonnell wants to bring about - higher corporation taxes, higher personal taxes, higher financial taxes, higher employment costs, forced nationalisations and meddling in company structures and governance - will have no effect on investment in our country? Just think about it for 1 nano-second. Business would run a mile, taking their jobs and their profits with them.

 

[robbieh]

The rise of the far right has been as a result of the far left shitting all over the current moderate capitalist model (which many people approve of), and the rise has been a backlash to it by those wishing to exploit people's anger.

When you've got the opinion that someone who approves of capitalism, doesn't like socialism and holds a different opinion to you means they are racist/stupid/fascist etc, THAT is why we are where we are now.

Can you name me a country in Europe that has had a far left government since the Soviet era?

 

[hgblue]

The problem for Labour is the members, if they lose this election these fruitcakes could install another like him.
If they do, then it's ta ta to Labour.

Yep, there's a large number of long standing Labour voters about to vote for the Tories for the first time ever. The thing is, if Brexit is delivered and the tales of doom and gloom don't materialise (which they won't), then the chances are these people will feel vindicated. If the Tories are smart they'll deliver on more spending on the NHS, police, schools, and for the regions in the North, Midlands and Wales, which will have delivered this election. That could very well put these seats on the table for the foreseeable future, as once you've voted Tory once and the world didn't end, you are bound to be more likely to do so again. Could turn into an existential crisis for the Labour Party. I bet they're now wishing they'd snatched Theresa May's hand off for her shit deal.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The media have their interests to protect just like you and I. So I'm not blaming them, just pointing out that their interests are probably not served by a redistributionist government.

And I am pointing out that the reasons for Labour losing, if indeed they do, won't be the media.
If people with entrenched views fail to see why those views are not accepted, then those people need to review them.