The Labour Party

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A couple of thousand out overall but broadly reflective of Labour's performance. Hard to read I know but it just demonstrates the trend of the performance. Left is % change (With left bars being loss of votes) and the right is change in number of votes (with left bars being loss of voters). Obviously with Chorley and Buckingham being technical anomalies.
 
Ban-jani said:
This absurd rhetoric is exactly what puts people off Labour. How dare the LibDems campaign for power, to implement their own views, in a democracy.

Also, using Grenfell as a reason to bash the Liberals excercising their democratic right is shameful.

She’s Momentum, this is what they are...


Click to expand...


There’s more to it than that. It was one of the areas where the Libs leafleted with their bullshit bar charts saying only they could beat the Tories. You might not like them using Grenfell in that way but down there and to many people it is political and to have the Tories back in power will be devastating.

And I believe Ash is neither a member of Momentum nor Labour.
 
cjn said:
Apologies if this was posted already (it's four days old), but I thought this was excellent, and mirrors many of my fears about how the Democratic party here in the US is approaching our next election. The recent focus on ideological purity over actually winning elections is endlessly frustrating to me.


Exactly right in my view.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party
Click to expand...
I've said before that I believe Trump will be re-elected. The reasons being that the Dems have been in a perpetual state of blind
fury, frustration and denial at losing to him, and have spent years trying every which way to remove him, at the expense
of everything else. People, there and here, are never impressed with these tactics, and millions of them there who voted for
Trump will not now suddenly turn Democrat after hearing them.
Oh, and Hollywood celebrities throwing their industry totally against him, has been, and now after even more hysterical
outbursts at Oscars etc; is, guaranteed to improve his ratings even further, we've had them doing exactly the same, and
no matter how many million Twitter /Instagram followers they have, and how much they believe the universe revolves
around them, not only does it not influence anyone, it actually achieves the polar opposite.
 
mackenzie said:
One thing is for certain, Labour need to make a clean break now. Away from anyone associated closely with Corbyn, because it will be pounced on.
Starmer is the only one of the present lot who seems to represent a figurehead who has, potentially, broad appeal. And that's what they need to focus on.
We need to get a leader and opposition that adopts some of the hope without scaring the electorate, whilst nullifying the venom of some of the media.
Click to expand...
I agree totally with your first sentence, but not with the selection of Starmer. Labour now, has to jettison him/Thornberry
et al in a leadership election, Starmer & Co, have been in the forefront of the Brexit deniers, have condescended to their core
vote, and are despised by the working class. Labour, to get back to anything like an opposition, needs to hold it's metropolitan
nose and install one of the few Brexiteers (Flint was ideal, but sadly gone because of Corbyn), or, at least, someone who
wasn't trashing it daily.
 
jay_mcfc said:
There’s more to it than that. It was one of the areas where the Libs leafleted with their bullshit bar charts saying only they could beat the Tories. You might not like them using Grenfell in that way but down there and to many people it is political and to have the Tories back in power will be devastating.

And I believe Ash is neither a member of Momentum nor Labour.
Click to expand...

Of course you’ll defend it, you’d defend absolutely anything the hard left say or do. The LibDems did that right across the country and they’re entitled to win votes wherever they wish.

What you lot cannot get into your skulls is that the LibDems hated your manifesto and Corbyn, as did many voters. The LibDems didn’t think Corbyn or Johnson were fit to be PM and neither did a lot of people who voted for them.

The hypocrisy is Labour never stood aside elsewhere. Had they in my constituency then the Tories would have lost. Am I arsed about that? No as it’s their right to stand wherever they wish.

To use Grenfell is appalling and you know it.

Ash is involved with Momentum, Novara Media in which she works for are a mouthpiece for them. Michael Walker is a prominent Momentum leader and works with her very closely.
 
purplenose said:
There you go, thats why this happened because to say that suggests its written by a right wing Tory voter.

I am no such person, i hate the Tories with a passion, i didnt vote because i could not stomach voting for Labour or Tory. A decent moderate Labour party would have mine and i am confident millions of votes, more than enough to beat what are an evil self serving murdering shower of cunts as i am sure you will agree.

Thatis the kind of people the Labour party have been absolutely battered by. Are they really going to persist with such nonsense of blaming the nasty racists for such a drubbing?
Click to expand...
The forum feels like a microcosm of the wider issue. There have been a number if us traditional Labour voters trying to explain to the 'purists' that the Labour Party cannot win an election without the support of those that share our views - only to be told to fuck off and referred to as Tories etc.

This is not a situations of taking satisfaction from having been proven to be correct - as people have said the UK needs a credible opposition and the had-left have destroyed that through their indulgence.

Listening to McDonnel and Corbyn at the weekend there is widespread denial and refusal to learn lessons and move back to the centre-left ground.

As a Brexit supporter and someone that could not possibly vote for Corby/McDonnell I have a huge sense of relief - 'a bullet dodged', but that is very different from being happy with the outcome - as I say the UK needs a credible opposition.

I think that Blair gets it right in this article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50829352
 
Bigga said:
So, let me ask you, in particular (I'm not responding to the others, cos I can't be arsed) what's the point in having 2 parties with a paper's width between them in existence?

This is what is got this country in this position.

You may as well submit to Tory rule and whatever they take from you and be done with any opposition.

I find that stance dumb, but that's what you're asking for.
Click to expand...
After all the flak you were giving out in the weeks leading up to the election I was expecting this post to be you stepping up to admit you were utterly wrong on so many counts - was that too much to expect?
 
cjn said:
Apologies if this was posted already (it's four days old), but I thought this was excellent, and mirrors many of my fears about how the Democratic party here in the US is approaching our next election. The recent focus on ideological purity over actually winning elections is endlessly frustrating to me.


Exactly right in my view.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party
Click to expand...
A number of posters on here, in particular @Damocles have been trying to explain the simple fact set out in that article for years.

The hard-left purists are more interested it seems in their ideology than actually being in power and able to achieve things
 
mcfc1632 said:
The forum feels like a microcosm of the wider issue. There have been a number if us traditional Labour voters trying to explain to the 'purists' that the Labour Party cannot win an election without the support of those that share our views - only to be told to fuck off and referred to as Tories etc.

This is not a situations of taking satisfaction from having been proven to be correct - as people have said the UK needs a credible opposition and the had-left have destroyed that through their indulgence.

Listening to McDonnel and Corbyn at the weekend there is widespread denial and refusal to learn lessons and move back to the centre-left ground.

As a Brexit supporter and someone that could not possibly vote for Corby/McDonnell I have a huge sense of relief - 'a bullet dodged', but that is very different from being happy with the outcome - as I say the UK needs a credible opposition.

I think that Blair gets it right in this article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50829352
Click to expand...
Would you have voted for Remainer Blair had he been leader last Thursday.
 
Ban-jani said:
Of course you’ll defend it, you’d defend absolutely anything the hard left say or do. The LibDems did that right across the country and they’re entitled to win votes wherever they wish.

What you lot cannot get into your skulls is that the LibDems hated your manifesto and Corbyn, as did many voters. The LibDems didn’t think Corbyn or Johnson were fit to be PM and neither did a lot of people who voted for them.

The hypocrisy is Labour never stood aside elsewhere. Had they in my constituency then the Tories would have lost. Am I arsed about that? No as it’s their right to stand wherever they wish.

To use Grenfell is appalling and you know it.

Ash is involved with Momentum, Novara Media in which she works for are a mouthpiece for them. Michael Walker is a prominent Momentum leader and works with her very closely.
Click to expand...

Aha. So the Lib Dems can use dirty tricks and lies to, ahem, lose a seat, and that's ok why? It doesn't matter which manifesto they liked or didn't like or which leader they respected because they are an utterly pointless party. Lets rewind a couple of months to them getting giddy at reaching 20% in the polls...and forcing Labour to call for a GE when the Cons had nowhere to go.

And btw I'm equally blaming both parties for not forming some kind of pact, it was pure narcissism not to. As soon as the Bxp stood aside for the Cons Labour and the LD's didn't stand a chance. But that doesn't take away that the Lib Dems dirty tricks in Kensington now means that the poor and minorities in that particular area have a Tory mp when many of them would have voted LD to try to keep them out.
 
mcfc1632 said:
The forum feels like a microcosm of the wider issue. There have been a number if us traditional Labour voters trying to explain to the 'purists' that the Labour Party cannot win an election without the support of those that share our views - only to be told to fuck off and referred to as Tories etc.

This is not a situations of taking satisfaction from having been proven to be correct - as people have said the UK needs a credible opposition and the had-left have destroyed that through their indulgence.

Listening to McDonnel and Corbyn at the weekend there is widespread denial and refusal to learn lessons and move back to the centre-left ground.

As a Brexit supporter and someone that could not possibly vote for Corby/McDonnell I have a huge sense of relief - 'a bullet dodged', but that is very different from being happy with the outcome - as I say the UK needs a credible opposition.

I think that Blair gets it right in this article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50829352
Click to expand...

The Labour leadership at the moment is going through what is typical of the kind of Soviet style denial. The only balance against that will be the PLP.

Corbyn knows he has the membership and they will just repeat the same olds about how the media etc were to blame to keep the membership energised for the cult.

We are already seeing it with the brainwashed types in Momentum who have started the smear campaign against the media and anyone who is against Corbyn. They haven't taken one single slice of humble pie.

Unfortunately these people are not going to listen and will need to be removed from Labour forceably if necessary.
 
robbieh said:
Would you have voted for Remainer Blair had he been leader last Thursday.
Click to expand...
Strange question

In 2019 I am first and foremost a Leave supporter - so the answer is a resounding no

But it brings forwards another interesting slice of thinking - as committed as I am to Brexit - I would/could not have voted for Corbyn/McDonnell even if they were supporting leave.

I have posted several times that if the cost of avoiding Corbyn/McDonnell was no Brexit I would choose that
 
Bigga said:
What a stupid reply.

Did you even bother to address the post or continue to crow about a result?
Click to expand...
Just thought you might feel it appropriate to show some humility after all the shit you were throwing about

Guess that is a no then
 
inbetween said:
The Labour leadership at the moment is going through what is typical of the kind of Soviet style denial. The only balance against that will be the PLP.

Corbyn knows he has the membership and they will just repeat the same olds about how the media etc were to blame to keep the membership energised for the cult.

We are already seeing it with the brainwashed types in Momentum who have started the smear campaign against the media and anyone who is against Corbyn. They haven't taken one single slice of humble pie.

Unfortunately these people are not going to listen and will need to be removed from Labour forceably if necessary.
Click to expand...
I guess there's a few possibilities, none of which will happen and one of which is nailed on.
  1. The PLP finds a way of kicking the hard left out of the party. Raising the annual subscription to £250 a year or something like that to cull all of the £3 Arthur Scargills. Can't happen with the strangle hold the Corbynistas have on their National Executive., and might not work anyway.
  2. PLP does not put anyone from the hard left on the shortlist for new leader. Can't happen - see above.
  3. Party members pick a moderate in preference to the (inevitably) heavily promoted and endorsed Corbynista candidate, RLB. No chance.
  4. Moderate MPs leave the Labour Party in droves - like 150+ of them, and set up "Real Labour" or equivalent, leaving the rest to fester in their own garbage. Can't see it, and may not work anyway.
  5. They carry on much as they were, with Corbyn in a dress, and hope that once Brexit is out of the way, they may have a better chance.
Of course, we are inevitably looking at (5). They are brainwashed into thinking that everyone wants the policies they were offering and that there is no real need for change. That they only lost the GE because of a nasty media types, out to get Corbyn, and that were it not for Brexit as well, then everything would have been fine.
 
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