The Labour Party

Bigga said:
So... You don't want to give an answer to the post you had a pop at?

Didn't think so...
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I was not having a pop at a particular post - I and others could see the games you play weeks ago and do not bother engaging with you

I was just using one of your posts to pose a straight-forward question/observation:

Just thought you might feel it appropriate to show some humility after all the shit you were throwing about

You seem to be dodging it - never mind
 
mcfc1632 said:
I was not having a pop at a particular post - I and others could see the games you play weeks ago and do not bother engaging with you

I was just using one of your posts to pose a straight-forward question/observation:

Just thought you might feel it appropriate to show some humility after all the shit you were throwing about

You seem to be dodging it - never mind
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Why would I bother to answer your question when you didn't answer mine? You idiots choose this pathway ALL the time.

You chose a question I asked to ask your own. You lot keep doing it.

When you lot genuinely answer mine, I'll answer yours.

Bit stupid of you lot to keep doing things the same way but you never want to do it differently.

So, as you say, "never mind" and don't engage.
 
My area turned into a Tory seat from Labour despite me voting for Labour so I can say I have done my bit and can effectively do no more, OK my vote was tongue in cheek and I had an inkling into how the voting was going to go so I knew I wasn't rubber-stamping the outcome by any means.
A member of my extended family voted Labour simply because she didn't like the Tories and that if the Tories got in they would crush the poor, others who voted Labour haven't it seems accepted the result and parrot every single excuse from facebook, lies and even government conspiracies to how the Tories won.

The opposition to government comes from the big house and from people voted in to bring the incumbent government to book, not have coffee mornings to shout Tory scum at each other and preach how stupid non Labour voters are.
 
Bigga said:
Why would I bother to answer your question when you didn't answer mine? You idiots choose this pathway ALL the time.

You chose a question I asked to ask your own. You lot keep doing it.

When you lot genuinely answer mine, I'll answer yours.

Bit stupid of you lot to keep doing things the same way but you never want to do it differently.

So, as you say, "never mind" and don't engage.
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I think that you have this wrong.

For myself - and I am sure many others on here - you have indeed provided a clear answer to the question posed.

OK - carry on - sorry to have disturbed you
 
jay_mcfc said:
Aha. So the Lib Dems can use dirty tricks and lies to, ahem, lose a seat, and that's ok why? It doesn't matter which manifesto they liked or didn't like or which leader they respected because they are an utterly pointless party. Lets rewind a couple of months to them getting giddy at reaching 20% in the polls...and forcing Labour to call for a GE when the Cons had nowhere to go.

And btw I'm equally blaming both parties for not forming some kind of pact, it was pure narcissism not to. As soon as the Bxp stood aside for the Cons Labour and the LD's didn't stand a chance. But that doesn't take away that the Lib Dems dirty tricks in Kensington now means that the poor and minorities in that particular area have a Tory mp when many of them would have voted LD to try to keep them out.
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Every single party over a certain size used dirty tricks. Corbyn lied through his back teeth about the NHS and about antisemitism being dealt with in his old party. I received a leaflet from Labour saying Lisa Smart (local Lib candidate) is an Orange Book LibDem who doesn’t want to protect the NHS. I personally spoke with her and she was anything but that. She was very centrist and passionate about the NHS.

Why are they a pointless party? What gives you the right to say that about them?

I’d happily vote for them over Labour whilst this attitude continues and the far left sneer their ugly fucking views on everyone else.

Labour we’re calling for a GE for 12 months weren’t they?

Stop blaming everyone else but the hard left. I’m fucking furious the opposition has been such a disgrace since the Brexit vote, it’s half the reason, as well as Cameron being a coward, we have gone through the last 3 years’ worth of mess.

Labour need to sort themselves out ASAP or Johnson will have a clean run and won’t be held to account.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Strange question

In 2019 I am first and foremost a Leave supporter - so the answer is a resounding no

But it brings forwards another interesting slice of thinking - as committed as I am to Brexit - I would/could not have voted for Corbyn/McDonnell even if they were supporting leave.

I have posted several times that if the cost of avoiding Corbyn/McDonnell was no Brexit I would choose that
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Not a strange question. You linked a Blair article saying that Labour needs to move towards the centre. As most of the moderate MPs were Remainers I could see a problem for people like you ie moderate Labour leavers.
You said you wouldn't have voted Blair in this instance as Brexit was your priority.

So Labour had a problem. Moderate leadership would have lost, Left leadership did lose.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Well that will probably solve the problem?

That said - I am not sure if it is an increase in membership or increase in voting supporters that is most important
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We're less than a week out from the election and a possible five years away from the next one, with no leader. This is long haul stuff, if Labour gets it right and this government fucks up, which is very likely, the earliest we would see any Labour government is two elections away, maybe ten years, and that's an optimistic take on it (from my standpoint anyway).

I've never been a critic of first past the post so I'm not going to criticise it now, but the facts are simple, Johnson barely increased May's 2017 share of the vote, the majority of votes cast in that election were for second referendum parties, that doesn't matter if power is all you want and in truth the Tories have always made that their number one priority, but it is a problem if Johnson wants to build on the shallow roots he presently has in old Labour strongholds.

Winning is great, but after you win the nature of the win is important, the problems that existed before exist still, the country has not come together as a result of this election and Johnson is, at least the last time I looked, still in negative perception country, which is almost unique in British politics for a PM entering Downing Street.

Winning is better than losing, but it brings with it responsibility and consequences, you might be celebrating, but millions are not. That's not Labour's problem, for now, right now the blairites are sticking the knife in, telling the membership they have to come home to the warm embrace of the third way, I don't sense they're going to accept, this ain't the early 90's.

I've not really looked at all the candidates, I think the hustings for this election will be decisive, either way, whoever wins will not have Corbyn's baggage, I don't think it will be Starmer, but I don't have a finger on this one.
 
robbieh said:
Not a strange question. You linked a Blair article saying that Labour needs to move towards the centre. As most of the moderate MPs were Remainers I could see a problem for people like you ie moderate Labour leavers.
You said you wouldn't have voted Blair in this instance as Brexit was your priority.

So Labour had a problem. Moderate leadership would have lost, Left leadership did lose.
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The point(s) that I and others have been making for years has been that the party that we have generally voted for cannot recover our support unless and until they move back towards the centre-left - therefore, unless they do this, they will not again be electable.
 
Politics Live now with the unspeakable Burgon trying to fix the succession for his toxic throwback cult. He's running as deputy to Long Bailey. Watch it on iPlayer - an astonishing exercise in dishonest denial and deflection. New poll on reasons why Labour voters turned Tory - Corbyn's leadership (43%) was by far the biggest factor.
 
George Hannah said:
Politics Live now with the unspeakable Burgon trying to fix the succession for his toxic throwback cult. He's running as deputy to Long Bailey. Watch it on iPlayer - an astonishing exercise in dishonest denial and deflection. New poll on reasons why Labour voters turned Tory - Corbyn's leadership (43%) was by far the biggest factor.
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That fat potatoe headed twat needs to stay away from the media.
 
George Hannah said:
Politics Live now with the unspeakable Burgon trying to fix the succession for his toxic throwback cult. He's running as deputy to Long Bailey. Watch it on iPlayer - an astonishing exercise in dishonest denial and deflection. New poll on reasons why Labour voters turned Tory - Corbyn's leadership (43%) was by far the biggest factor.
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I'd need a new TV if I was forced to watch Burgon. The old one would have chair leg sticking through it.
 
George Hannah said:
Politics Live now with the unspeakable Burgon trying to fix the succession for his toxic throwback cult. He's running as deputy to Long Bailey. Watch it on iPlayer - an astonishing exercise in dishonest denial and deflection. New poll on reasons why Labour voters turned Tory - Corbyn's leadership (43%) was by far the biggest factor.
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am a labour voter myself, and him and Suella next to him just have my utter disillusionment with politics and politicians confirmed.
 
The reality was that Labour were stuck between a rock and a hard place:
  • Go Remain and lose the North en masse to Leave parties.
  • Go soft Brexit and lose London and possibly other metro areas to the Lib Dems.
The compromise they chose was nearly as bad as the first option. With all the Leave Labour MPs being deselected or cowed by Momentum threatening to deselect them, they were silenced. Only the appointment of a number of Labour Leave MPs to the front bench with a big hitter appointed to lead the Labour negotiations could have made the compromise work but the Remainer Marxists were not interested in compromise.
Thornberry may or may not have said Labour voters up North were thick, but the actions of Labour especially the London Metropolitan set, were very much of that ilk.
What surprises me most about the election is that 70% of Labour voters still voted Labour even with this colossal feck up. It probably should have been a lot worse.
 
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