The Labour Party

George Hannah said:
You just vote for zombies whose brains died in the 70s.
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Time is on my side, yes it is....

90
 
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mcfc1632 said: ↑
Strange question

In 2019 I am first and foremost a Leave supporter - so the answer is a resounding no

But it brings forwards another interesting slice of thinking - as committed as I am to Brexit - I would/could not have voted for Corbyn/McDonnell even if they were supporting leave.

I have posted several times that if the cost of avoiding Corbyn/McDonnell was no Brexit I would choose that

You seem to be dodging it - never mind[/QUOTE]


That is exactly where I got to ... I wish Momentum would go and get their own party and piss off
 
The perfect fumble said:
Labour membership has spiked by 24,000 since last week.
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Sounds like retail therapy to handle the grief. Spend £3 (if it's still that) and feel like you've made a difference. A bit like how a Mormon feels when they give money to their church.

I'm not gloating as I want to be able to return to the Labour Party (as a voter not a member) some time in the future, but I'll be waiting to see how they reform themselves before deciding. Attracting blind support sort of puts me off, to be honest, but I do understand why people do it. I think the Lib Dems have had spikes in their membership after poor election showings like this in the past and it didn't do them much good.
 
BlueAnorak said:
The reality was that Labour were stuck between a rock and a hard place:
  • Go Remain and lose the North en masse to Leave parties.
  • Go soft Brexit and lose London and possibly other metro areas to the Lib Dems.
The compromise they chose was nearly as bad as the first option. With all the Leave Labour MPs being deselected or cowed by Momentum threatening to deselect them, they were silenced. Only the appointment of a number of Labour Leave MPs to the front bench with a big hitter appointed to lead the Labour negotiations could have made the compromise work but the Remainer Marxists were not interested in compromise.
Thornberry may or may not have said Labour voters up North were thick, but the actions of Labour especially the London Metropolitan set, were very much of that ilk.
What surprises me most about the election is that 70% of Labour voters still voted Labour even with this colossal feck up. It probably should have been a lot worse.
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They could have passed and improved May's deal, avoided a right-wing Johnson Gov and right-wing Brexit, and got the issue over and done with.

They probably would have had a slightly better chance of beating May because they wouldn't have been crucified in their heartlands as much, and putting the EU debate to bed would have rid them of the threat of the Lib Dems in the South.

Instead, they protested the deal because protest is all some of them know, and condemned themselves to 10 more years in opposition.

They couldn't have played their hand any worse.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Labour membership has spiked by 24,000 since last week.
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Little doubt.

I expect even more of the most extreme on the left of British politics to see membership as a safe haven for their opinions.

They have a new supreme leader to elect as well.
 
Fame Monster said:
They could have passed and improved May's deal, avoided a right-wing Johnson Gov and right-wing Brexit, and got the issue over and done with.

They probably would have had a slightly better chance of beating May because they wouldn't have been crucified in their heartlands as much, and putting the EU debate to bed would have rid them of the threat of the Lib Dems in the South.

Instead, they protested the deal because protest is all some of them know, and condemned themselves to 10 more years in opposition.

They couldn't have played their hand any worse.
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Indeed. And that's from the very start of this sorry story, when a party with a significant Remain support but with a Eurosceptic leader failed to effectively campaign for what the majority of their support wanted. Had they done so, Remain might have won.

So when they say they're going to listen to what people in the country want, you have to take that with a pinch of salt as they've never listened.
 
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Fame Monster said:
They could have passed and improved May's deal, avoided a right-wing Johnson Gov and right-wing Brexit, and got the issue over and done with.

They probably would have had a slightly better chance of beating May because they wouldn't have been crucified in their heartlands as much, and putting the EU debate to bed would have rid them of the threat of the Lib Dems in the South.

Instead, they protested the deal because protest is all some of them know, and condemned themselves to 10 more years in opposition.

They couldn't have played their hand any worse.
Click to expand...
They could have done much more than that by agreeing a deal with the tory rebels, Liberals and SNP. they could have formed a cross party alliance for 6 months. Would have meant Corbyn standing aside though so he was never doing that.
 
blueinsa said:
Little doubt.

I expect even more of the most extreme on the left of British politics to see membership as a safe haven for their opinions.

They have a new supreme leader to elect as well.
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Yours for the low, low price of £3
 
Fame Monster said:
They could have passed and improved May's deal, avoided a right-wing Johnson Gov and right-wing Brexit, and got the issue over and done with.

They probably would have had a slightly better chance of beating May because they wouldn't have been crucified in their heartlands as much, and putting the EU debate to bed would have rid them of the threat of the Lib Dems in the South.

Instead, they protested the deal because protest is all some of them know, and condemned themselves to 10 more years in opposition.

They couldn't have played their hand any worse.
Click to expand...

Brexit was supposed to destroy the Tory Party, Corbyn let it destroy Labour.

Sad times.
 
blueparrot said:
They could have done much more than that by agreeing a deal with the tory rebels, Liberals and SNP. they could have formed a cross party alliance for 6 months. Would have meant Corbyn standing aside though so he was never doing that.
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Labour never understood that this election was about Brexit and nothing more, that is why Boris called it in the first place.

The public fully understood why an election was called and what a Tory government might do for them on the issue.

We know this because the Tories AND Labour were wiped out in the European elections and only the Tories responded to it.

Labour choosing to offer a second referendum (because they wanted to remain) must go down as one of the most disastorous policy decisions in history.
 
inbetween said:
Labour never understood that this election was about Brexit and nothing more, that is why Boris called it in the first place.

The public fully understood why an election was called and what a Tory government might do for them on the issue.

We know this because the Tories AND Labour were wiped out in the European elections and only the Tories responded to it.

Labour choosing to offer a second referendum (because they wanted to remain) must go down as one of the most disastorous policy decisions in history.
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Agree with all of that, but it is also true I think that Jeremy Corbyn specifically was a massive problem for Labour. Countless reports from Labour MP's, ex-MP's, analysts and anecdotes from the public that people just can't stand Jeremy Corbyn.

22208138-7789965-image-a-22_1576253604801.jpg
 
BlueAnorak said:
The reality was that Labour were stuck between a rock and a hard place:
  • Go Remain and lose the North en masse to Leave parties.
  • Go soft Brexit and lose London and possibly other metro areas to the Lib Dems.
The compromise they chose was nearly as bad as the first option. With all the Leave Labour MPs being deselected or cowed by Momentum threatening to deselect them, they were silenced. Only the appointment of a number of Labour Leave MPs to the front bench with a big hitter appointed to lead the Labour negotiations could have made the compromise work but the Remainer Marxists were not interested in compromise.
Thornberry may or may not have said Labour voters up North were thick, but the actions of Labour especially the London Metropolitan set, were very much of that ilk.
What surprises me most about the election is that 70% of Labour voters still voted Labour even with this colossal feck up. It probably should have been a lot worse.
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They went the remain route and lost 50 odd seats in the north and midlands and gained two in London. They’ll never win an election without those seats as the vast majority of constituencies voted to leave. Something labour seems to have bizarrely ignored

I will never understand the labour point on remain voters ie the majority of labour voters voted for remain therefore we must be a remain party....

Do labour mps now only represent labour voters??? Do they not represent their constituencies? Of the general area they are standing in. A lot of these areas were all labour areas In The past

You have loads of seats where 70% of the area voted leave. Do labour now only try and represent the 30% of remain votes ??

They should have gone for a soft brexit or just staying the custom union.
 
inbetween said:
Labour never understood that this election was about Brexit and nothing more, that is why Boris called it in the first place.

The public fully understood why an election was called and what a Tory government might do for them on the issue.

We know this because the Tories AND Labour were wiped out in the European elections and only the Tories responded to it.

Labour choosing to offer a second referendum (because they wanted to remain) must go down as one of the most disastorous policy decisions in history.
Click to expand...
Still baffled why the opposition parties did not just refuse an election and instead put through legislation for a 2nd referendum

Do that and get Brexit cancelled - then have a GE with the Tories with nothing to rally around and carrying the can for wasted years
 
mcfc1632 said:
Still baffled why the opposition parties did not just refuse an election and instead put through legislation for a 2nd referendum

Do that and get Brexit cancelled - then have a GE with the Tories with nothing to rally around and carrying the can for wasted years
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They would have done if they could but they didn't have anywhere near enough support for a 2nd referendum.
 
This party membership issue that has cropped up in recent years is a phenomenon, how many people on here know anyone
who's a member of a political party? I only ever remember one, from years ago, he was a staunch Conservative, and
also a bit of a tosser, since then, I've not knowingly met anyone, I've heard many political arguments, but never from any party
members,
 
When Thornberry was on question time before the GE saying she was against the GE being held and that she would fight to stay in the EU and vote against leaving it even if Labour were in power and negotiated a deal the die was cast. Even after it was explained to her that what was the point going to the EU and getting a deal only to come back and vote against it.
She was reminded that the stance of Labour and the promise of her party was that they would honour the referendum to which she replied she had changed her mind, as for not wanting a GE it's clear she had at least the foresight to understand Labour were going to get murdered and the Tories were going to get at the very least a working majority.
 
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