Another new Brexit thread

[Len Rum]

it’s done now we are leaving , people need to just get on with it.

Mustn't grumble.

 

[Ban-jani]

With respect - I have see you make this mistake a few times.

Not every such post is aimed at you personally and the fact that you may have shown the character to hold the view that ".....accept the public wishes to leave and that is what we should do." does not mean that a lot of others have not and it will be them, rather than you, that the point is aimed at.

Indeed - otherwise you are also making a generalisation - assuming that your personal stance covers all Remain voters when it clearly doesn't. A lot of Remainers, including some on here have/are indeed reacting as described in @Ardwick Green Blue post.

I understand that but there’s an ever increasing number both on here and within those I know that hold this view.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Remainers are gutted as they bet the house on overturning the Leave vote and ensuring that the UK stayed in the EU. They had the option of voting for May's soft Brexit deal, which became even softer when she entered into negotiations with Labour. However they calculated they could get far more than that and voted it down.

As Jim Bowen used to say..'This is what you could have won'...

Never mind, it was only the speed boat..

Utterly incorrect and a generalisation.

I’m a remain voter and would vote remain every single time of asking but I accept the public wishes to leave and that is what we should do.

I was specifically referencing Remain MPs & not all Remainers. Clearly Johnson won a lot of Conservative Remain votes and probably a fair few from previously Labour voters.

If you are interested what Remain Ultras think of it all go on the Guardian comments :)

 

[Metal Biker]

After losing every single argument since the referendum result, ie; general elections won by a leave supporting party,
the opposition declaring their intention to honour the referendum result also, then seeing the jaw dropping success of
the BXP in the MEP elections, then a new PM promises an election to break the deadlock on Brexit created by Parliament,
and standing, and shouting, screaming 'GET BREXIT DONE!' holding said election and storming it with a landslide,
you still come out with this utter nonsense.
No doubt what follows will be a frantic exercise in adding up everyone in the population, including babies, prisoners,
foreigners and the insane, umpteen millions kicking the bucket since the vote, and an absolute belief that no remainer whatsoever
has accepted the result at all, and this facile, futile argument will still stagger on.

I kinda liked their lazier approach; "They didn't know what they were voting for!"

 

[Ban-jani]

Still waiting for an explanation of what this "ultra soft Brexit" was. Some real revisionism going on already - by the winners! As for "out of touch" you all know you'd have lost a second referendum.





Nice to know I'm not alone in my naivety.

As for the general nonsense that there was ever a soft Brexit (let alone an "ultra soft Brexit") to be had from May, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that. Even if it was offered to Labour she'd never have got it past her own party.

Even on the indicative votes for staying in a customs union and for a confirmatory referendum it was Labour rebels helping to vote those down. (Most LibDems voted against the customs union, so blame them for not compromising - and the SNP who abstained.)

I guess you're all trying to prove by this revisionist nonsense that history is written by the winners.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47779783

I’ve literally just told you.

Remaining in the Customs Union or Single Market or both is an ultra soft, soft, mega soft, pretty soft, whatever-you-want-to-call-it soft Brexit

 

[Ban-jani]

I was specifically referencing Remain MPs & not all Remainers. Clearly Johnson won a lot of Conservative Remain votes and probably a fair few from previously Labour voters.

If you are interested what Remain Ultras think of it all go on the Guardian comments :)

I’d rather go on Rag Cafe than the Guardian comments section.

 

[Metal Biker]

I’ve literally just told you.

Remaining in the Customs Union or Single Market or both is an ultra soft, soft, mega soft, pretty soft, whatever-you-want-to-call-it soft Brexit

I think there's a few of us leave advocates who would compromise on retaining some aspects of access to the Single Market... it's when people say we should keep both that pisses a lot of us off. ;)

The Customs Union is the big one; we stay in the CU and we haven't left the EU.

 

[Vic]

After losing every single argument since the referendum result, ie; general elections won by a leave supporting party,
the opposition declaring their intention to honour the referendum result also, then seeing the jaw dropping success of
the BXP in the MEP elections, then a new PM promises an election to break the deadlock on Brexit created by Parliament,
and standing, and shouting, screaming 'GET BREXIT DONE!' holding said election and storming it with a landslide,
you still come out with this utter nonsense.
No doubt what follows will be a frantic exercise in adding up everyone in the population, including babies, prisoners,
foreigners and the insane, umpteen millions kicking the bucket since the vote, and an absolute belief that no remainer whatsoever
has accepted the result at all, and this facile, futile argument will still stagger on.

Yet every opinion poll right till the day of the election had Remain ahead. Including Labour, Remainy parties got more votes in the election. To leave the EU is not what most people want. That's why Leavers wanted to avoid another referendum. You all know that.

 

[Vic]

I’ve literally just told you.

Remaining in the Customs Union or Single Market or both is an ultra soft, soft, mega soft, pretty soft, whatever-you-want-to-call-it soft Brexit

And when was that on offer from the Tories? (Other than during the referendum campaign?)

 

[Vic]

I think there's a few of us leave advocates who would compromise on retaining some aspects of access to the Single Market... it's when people say we should keep both that pisses a lot of us off. ;)

The Customs Union is the big one; we stay in the CU and we haven't left the EU.

Says the only Leaver on here who did want an ultra soft Brexit by keeping us in the EEA, a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border (as advocated by Gove and the official Leave campaign of which Johnson was part).

And since when is Turkey in the EU? - because it's in the CU.

 

[Ban-jani]

And when was that on offer from the Tories? (Other than during the referendum campaign?)

Did you sleep through Theresa May’s pitiful tenure in Downing St.?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Yet every opinion poll right till the day of the election had Remain ahead. Including Labour, Remainy parties got more votes in the election. To leave the EU is not what most people want. That's why Leavers wanted to avoid another referendum. You all know that.

There was never any reason for a second referendum beyond the fact some folk didn't like the result of the 2016 one. Most propositions for another referendum deliberately aimed to split the leave votes between a deal or no Deal option so as to get remain over the line. Basically a form of electoral fraud.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

There was never any reason for a second referendum beyond the fact some folk didn't like the result of the 2016 one. Most propositions for another referendum deliberately aimed to split the leave votes between a deal or no Deal option so as to get remain over the line. Basically a form of electoral fraud.

Add votes for 16 year olds and for 2 million EU citizens (both proposed by Labour in the event of a second referendum) to that fraud.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

After losing every single argument since the referendum result, ie; general elections won by a leave supporting party,
the opposition declaring their intention to honour the referendum result also, then seeing the jaw dropping success of
the BXP in the MEP elections, then a new PM promises an election to break the deadlock on Brexit created by Parliament,
and standing, and shouting, screaming 'GET BREXIT DONE!' holding said election and storming it with a landslide,
you still come out with this utter nonsense.
No doubt what follows will be a frantic exercise in adding up everyone in the population, including babies, prisoners,
foreigners and the insane, umpteen millions kicking the bucket since the vote, and an absolute belief that no remainer whatsoever
has accepted the result at all, and this facile, futile argument will still stagger on.

Some people im afraid just refuse to believe or accept that they have lost an argument.

 

[Vic]

There was never any reason for a second referendum beyond the fact some folk didn't like the result of the 2016 one. Most propositions for another referendum deliberately aimed to split the leave votes between a deal or no Deal option so as to get remain over the line. Basically a form of electoral fraud.

That's just admitting that people voted Leave but not for leaving without a deal (unless you can cite anyone in the leave campaign who told voters we might leave without a deal). So the first referendum was a fraud.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yet every opinion poll right till the day of the election had Remain ahead. Including Labour, Remainy parties got more votes in the election. To leave the EU is not what most people want. That's why Leavers wanted to avoid another referendum. You all know that.

We don't all know that at all.

I was of the opinion that were there to have been a second referendum, that Remain would win. But I thought that about the first one. Most people did and we were wrong, weren't we.

Anyway, why are we even having this discussion??? Shall we debate the reasons for John Major's election defeat in 1997, or other such historical irrelevances? Brexit is now happening and we all need to start focusing on positives and looking forward. I see little point in getting into a huddle and convincing ourselves endlessly how we shouldn't have voted how we did and how terrible it's going to be. We just have to make the best of it.

 

[mexico1970]

That's just admitting that people voted Leave but not for leaving without a deal (unless you can cite anyone in the leave campaign who told voters we might leave without a deal). So the first referendum was a fraud.

All the main leaders told the country that we would be leaving the single market and there were only 2 options on the ballot paper, we need to get it done and move on.

 

[Blue Hefner]

We don't all know that at all.

I was of the opinion that were there to have been a second referendum, that Remain would win. But I thought that about the first one. Most people did and we were wrong, weren't we.

Anyway, why are we even having this discussion??? Shall we debate the reasons for John Major's election defeat in 1997, or other such historical irrelevances? Brexit is now happening and we all need to start focusing on positives and looking forward. I see little point in getting into a huddle and convincing ourselves endlessly how we shouldn't have voted how we did and how terrible it's going to be. We just have to make the best of it.

I’m with you until the ‘focus on the positives’ bit. I’m struggling with that as outside of ‘getting Brexit done’ and ‘unleashing’ the UKs potential, the Government don’t seem to be talking about the positives, apart from a points based imagination system of course but even that (let’s pretend it’s a positive) is very short on detail

The only way to unite the country is to explain to people the length and breadth of the country, from all background and demographics how we are likely to benefit in the short, medium and long term

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I’m with you until the ‘focus on the positives’ bit. I’m struggling with that as outside of ‘getting Brexit done’ and ‘unleashing’ the UKs potential, the Government don’t seem to be talking about the positives, apart from a points based imagination system of course but even that (let’s pretend it’s a positive) is very short on detail

The only way to unite the country is to explain to people the length and breadth of the country, from all background and demographics how we are likely to benefit in the short, medium and long term

i dont agree with that. i think the government and brexit support has generally been positive. theyve highlighted the benefits, such as trade deals, control of law, control of immigration... for example plenty of times. i think that was actually the downfall of the remain campaign. a campaign based on fear and negativity.

i would also say its very difficult to accurately show the impact of brexit, short or long term as its never happened before. most economic forecasts haven't been correct either.

 

[mcfc1632]

Still waiting for an explanation of what this "ultra soft Brexit" was. Some real revisionism going on already - by the winners! As for "out of touch" you all know you'd have lost a second referendum.





Nice to know I'm not alone in my naivety.

As for the general nonsense that there was ever a soft Brexit (let alone an "ultra soft Brexit") to be had from May, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that. Even if it was offered to Labour she'd never have got it past her own party.

Even on the indicative votes for staying in a customs union and for a confirmatory referendum it was Labour rebels helping to vote those down. (Most LibDems voted against the customs union, so blame them for not compromising - and the SNP who abstained.)

I guess you're all trying to prove by this revisionist nonsense that history is written by the winners.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47779783

Nice selective use of my post - lol

And still no acceptance of the responsibility that Corbyn should bear