The Labour Party

[Ancient Citizen]

I'd settle for social democracy, I think most members would, but not the third way, that poisoned the party, destroyed it in order to save it, but just ended up destroying it.

You can win elections by not being the government, because eventually all governments piss the electorate off, that's how New Labour won in 97, John Major was fucked and Blair looked fresh, modern and vaguely progressive

in reality John Smith, had he lived, would've won by a landslide in 97, my cat would've done!

New Labour then took that enormous goodwill and a stonking majority and pissed it away until there was nothing left, because, in the end, they stood for nothing but the status quo.

You were on here lauding Corbyn as leader, which explains the utter tripe above, it's you who has arbitrarily dismissed
the most successful leader ever, 'Destroyed the party?' Any fool can see that the lefty nutter you spoke so highly of was the
one who's led it to this sorry state, you even champion Lewis, who's cut from the same cloth, you never learn.

 

[blueinsa]

What would help would be for those who never stop repeating that they are traditional Labour voters but don't like the direction the party has gone, to join the party and vote out Corbyn's cronies and put a centrist leader in place. It worked for Momentum in getting Corbyn in, so why can't it work the other way? (Because half of them are closet Tories and don't like to admit it)

Get into bed with Momentum and co by joining their club?

No thanks.

The vast majority of the electorate dont join a political party because they dont need to. They still have their voice heard at the ballot box and when Labour had a centrist PM they voted for him in their millions and gave him huge victories. I should know i was one of them.

Not this time around though and not a closet Tory but a very open, out and proud Tory voter because of brexit and their stance and because of the sheer fucking shit state the Labour party has got itself into with their crackpot policies.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

he recent polling suggests that Starmer will have a strong early lead. Change already on the cards.

Another massive own goal, do you honestly think Starmer will be welcomed by those who have flocked to the Tories?
Although not a lefty fruitcake like the other charmers, he was one of the main culprits in the attempt to frustrate Brexit,
this farce carried on for over 3 years, voters are not idiots, they took gleeful revenge on him and his ilk, to pick
him ensures the next GE goes to the Tories.

 

[The perfect fumble]

A warped take, the tories should have been finished when Major called a GE. They were a mess of a party then but the reality was Labour were not much better, hard left factions were casung all sorts of trouble and the wider perception creating a view that they could not be trusted. Blair managed to pull it together by further marginalising the nutters in the same way Kinock had fought them and the moderates in the party, sick of losing, got fully behind him. That battle had been fought for years and Blair got on top of it and got the Militant / Hard Left nutters to pipedown enough. Then once in power many pissed of to the Socialist Workers Party. With Corbyn they all came crawling back and Labour got back in to the swing of losing elections to rank awful tories.

History will repeat itself. The next Labour leader will look to clear out the nutters.

You don't understand the third way and what New Labour represented, that's why you get it wrong about Labour all the time.

When Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader, Neil Kinnock said he'd got his party back, what did he mean by that?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

When Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader, Neil Kinnock said he'd got his party back, what did he mean by that?

That if he worked very, very hard, he could be as successful as he was.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I always seem to pick the winners, you should try being even sillier.

It's easy to be wrong.

 

[The perfect fumble]

That if he worked very, very hard, he could be as successful as he was.

You can suck up to populists all you like, but they'll fuck you over in the end.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Another massive own goal, do you honestly think Starmer will be welcomed by those who have flocked to the Tories?
Although not a lefty fruitcake like the other charmers, he was one of the main culprits in the attempt to frustrate Brexit,
this farce carried on for over 3 years, voters are not idiots, they took gleeful revenge on him and his ilk, to pick
him ensures the next GE goes to the Tories.

Lol. Brexit is not the reason labour lost. But in any event brexit will be a dirty word in 5 years time. The next Labour leader needs to be well placed to call out the mess that Johnson will make of it. Labour must absolutley not sit on the sidelines of the big brexit issues that will be faced in the next 5 years. It will be a shit show and it will need calling out from day 1. Johnson will need to own brexit and every decision needs scrutiny from here on.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

You can suck up to populists all you like, but they'll fuck you over in the end.

Stick with the losers mate, winning would probably do you a mischief after all this time.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Stick with the losers mate, winning would probably do you a mischief after all this time.

We'd be better off under Ed, there's no doubt about that.

If Ed is too left wing then why is it the Lib Dems and Change UK bomb?

Everyone keeps banging on about the need for moderation, but the existing "moderate" party is an irrelevance, and every attempt to refashion the centre with the likes of the SDP and recently Change UK tanks.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You don't understand the third way and what New Labour represented, that's why you get it wrong about Labour all the time.

When Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader, Neil Kinnock said he'd got his party back, what did he mean by that?

Maybe i dont understand it - but maybe you dont understand that you need broad popular appeal to win a GE and if you dont set out to win one its all a bit pointless. Corbyn has been pointless - a waste of time. Blair you can criticise for what he did as PM but at least he was PM.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Lol. Brexit is not the reason labour lost. But in any event brexit will be a dirty word in 5 years time. The next Labour leader needs to be well placed to call out the mess that Johnson will make of it. Labour must absolutley not sit on the sidelines of the big brexit issues that will be faced in the next 5 years. It will be a shit show and it will need calling out from day 1. Johnson will need to own brexit and every decision needs scrutiny from here on.

That post is riddled with supposition, you're still convinced about Brexit being bad, so Starmer will be right in the end,
everyone will see the error of their ways, and he'll be the one for us.
Labour need, a moderate Brexit supporting candidate, (if there are any), to present as leader someone who has massively
alienated the voters, like Starmer is stupid, but they have been on suicide watch for a while now.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

We'd be better off under Ed, there's no doubt about that.

I can understand why you would think that, thankfully, most of us didn't.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Maybe i dont understand it - but maybe you dont understand that you need broad popular appeal to win a GE and if you dont set out to win one its all a bit pointless. Corbyn has been pointless - a waste of time. Blair you can criticise for what he did as PM but at least he was PM.

Agreed, but to some, purity is all.

 

[west didsblue]

That post is riddled with supposition, you're still convinced about Brexit being bad, so Starmer will be right in the end,
everyone will see the error of their ways, and he'll be the one for us.
Labour need, a moderate Brexit supporting candidate, (if there are any), to present as leader someone who has massively
alienated the voters, like Starmer is stupid, but they have been on suicide watch for a while now.

Totally illogical post.
Labour definitely needs a moderate centrist leader, but the main thing it needs to do is hold the Tories to account over Brexit. There is nothing that Labour or any party can do to frustrate the Brexit process so it needs to be in a position that come the next election, they make sure that the government fully owns what has happened and doesn't let them deflect the blame for any unintended consequences. If Brexit is a stunning success then the Tories will romp home in 2024, however if it is a total fuck up Labour need to be in a position where they have held the government to account every step of the way and they need to make sure that everyone knows it. A half arsed pro- or anti-Brexit position is irrelevant, it's all about providing credible opposition and proper scrutiny.

 

[blueinsa]

Totally illogical post.
Labour definitely needs a moderate centrist leader, but the main thing it needs to do is hold the Tories to account over Brexit. There is nothing that Labour or any party can do to frustrate the Brexit process so it needs to be in a position that come the next election, they make sure that the government fully owns what has happened and doesn't let them deflect the blame for any unintended consequences. If Brexit is a stunning success then the Tories will romp home in 2024, however if it is a total fuck up Labour need to be in a position where they have held the government to account every step of the way and they need to make sure that everyone knows it. A half arsed pro- or anti-Brexit position is irrelevant, it's all about providing credible opposition and proper scrutiny.

Not having a brexit supporting leader has put the Tories in power with a huge majority.

Credible opposition and scrutiny wont be happening in this parliament.

 

[west didsblue]

Not having a brexit supporting leader has put the Tories in power with a huge majority.

Credible opposition and scrutiny wont be happening in this parliament.

Having a terrorist supporting Marxist that nobody trusts as leader of the opposition has put the Tories in power with a huge majority.

You are right that there won't be credible opposition and scrutiny unless and until Labour recognise this and address it.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Totally illogical post.
Labour definitely needs a moderate centrist leader, but the main thing it needs to do is hold the Tories to account over Brexit. There is nothing that Labour or any party can do to frustrate the Brexit process so it needs to be in a position that come the next election, they make sure that the government fully owns what has happened and doesn't let them deflect the blame for any unintended consequences. If Brexit is a stunning success then the Tories will romp home in 2024, however if it is a total fuck up Labour need to be in a position where they have held the government to account every step of the way and they need to make sure that everyone knows it. A half arsed pro- or anti-Brexit position is irrelevant, it's all about providing credible opposition and proper scrutiny.

All Brexit needs to be to be successful is to be better, or no worse than the European average.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Totally illogical post.
Labour definitely needs a moderate centrist leader, but the main thing it needs to do is hold the Tories to account over Brexit. There is nothing that Labour or any party can do to frustrate the Brexit process so it needs to be in a position that come the next election, they make sure that the government fully owns what has happened and doesn't let them deflect the blame for any unintended consequences. If Brexit is a stunning success then the Tories will romp home in 2024, however if it is a total fuck up Labour need to be in a position where they have held the government to account every step of the way and they need to make sure that everyone knows it. A half arsed pro- or anti-Brexit position is irrelevant, it's all about providing credible opposition and proper scrutiny.

No, you are being illogical, you are effectively saying that Labour need to carry on attacking the Tories on
Brexit, they don't, they need to embrace it, support it, and assist in it succeeding. They do this with a leader that's
not wedded to infantile student politics, and is not, and has not, had a career of constant carping, and shouting about
how evil they are. The populace will go with someone like this, Brexit has happened, it is pointless now 'Taking the
Tories to account' over it, it needs embracing, then the party can attack the Tories on other policy matters.

 

[joe123]

No, you are being illogical, you are effectively saying that Labour need to carry on attacking the Tories on
Brexit, they don't, they need to embrace it, support it, and assist in it succeeding. They do this with a leader that's
not wedded to infantile student politics, and is not, and has not, had a career of constant carping, and shouting about
how evil they are. The populace will go with someone like this, Brexit has happened, it is pointless now 'Taking the
Tories to account' over it, it needs embracing, then the party can attack the Tories on other policy matters.

The next Labour needs to be politically nimble enough to exploit Brexit, and any other issues, accordingly in 5 years time. Brexit will have happened then so if Boris makes a pigs ear of it, attack him for it and point out how we were lied to about the sunny uplands. If he doesn't balls it up, will be a case of attacking them on other issues and keep quiet on Brexit and say we've moved on. Labour essentially need to be a bit more ideologically fluid rather than being portrayed as dogmatically hard left under Corbyn.