Another new Brexit thread

[Ban-jani]

There's always the Don't Knows. And the non voters. And the anarchists. And Corbyn and the other neutrals / fence sitters.

Corbyn’s only a fence sitter on Brexit because he’s really a leave supporter and his membership is 80% remain.

Anarchists are violent thugs so I think I’ll just go to the pub with the “don’t knows” and people who don’t vote.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Just reading an article in which Barnier comments on the upcoming negotiations, brought home to me how docile May/Robbins were in allowing the EU to set out the process and order for negotiations last time. They will surely seek to do that again and the extent to which they are successful should provide some early sight of how resolute the UK are going to be this time. Our stance should also indicate the extent to which the UK will start to mobilise the prospect of No-Deal as a fallback position.

As an observer of the negotiations it is interesting to see the pre-negotiating positioning statements - and the fact that they are emerging from the senior EU representatives is telling.

Barnier seeks to emphasise the 'enormity' of the task: ".....the UK will "automatically, mechanically, legally, leave 600 international agreements". We will have, together – EU and UK, and the UK for its part, alone – to rebuild everything, he says. "That is what is at stake for the next stage of the negotiations".

He then sets out the scope of what is to be covered: "...."a partnership that goes well beyond trade and is unprecedented in scope: covering everything from services and fisheries, to climate action, energy, transport, space, security and defence". But then he concedes that this is "a huge agenda". We simply cannot expect to agree on every single aspect of this new partnership in under a year, he says." and I expect that his team are now very actively preparing the 'prioritisation' of these areas to ensure that those of greatest importance to the UK are 'appropriately' behind those that the EU sees as the priorities.

I would expect this to be the initial important engagement and whilst we should be able to gauge the strengths of the 2 parties and increasingly the likely outcome, I hope that this is not the case as I hope that the UK does not let itself get involved with the public positioning statements that has been the EU's style throughout. In the past this has worked for the EU as their every aspect of doom-mongering has been seized upon by their sycophants at Westminster and social media to trumpet the omnipotence of the EU and demean the UK. Those days where the EU could, via its proxies, control the UK's negotiating positions has now been swept aside and it will be interesting to see if the EU's negotiating team have reconciled themselves to the implications of this change. Equally it will be important to see if the UK representatives are people that can effectively utilise the opportunity that results from the UK having been liberated from the constraints that evidenced Westminster's previous willingness to deliberately damage the UK's negotiating position.

This article starts to bring out where the approaches to negotiations and priorities of the 2 parties will differ - as I say - I find it interesting that Barnier continues to make these public pronouncements at this stage. Fuck - I really hope that Johnson has assembled the right team...…..

eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87482

Barnier is not wrong though. Aside from trade, we have all of the ‘internal wiring’ that needs to be ‘rewired’ Prior to 31/12. You would have hoped that there are solutions in place for some aspects already as part of the no deal planning that has already taken place but the work to unpick decades of infrastructure is going to be substantial. It is interesting to see some of the posturing already around our favourite subject fishing! Who was it on the U.K. side that suggested that trade agreement could be carried out seperately from access agreement. That’s interesting in a scenario where we import what we eat and export what we catch. The U.K. side will persist with that and see how far they can get before they need to use access as a bargaining chip. The EU will want it introduced from the first day of negotiation.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I'm sure whoever coined the term knew it was an oxymoron. If you don't think that stopping Parliament from discussing any deal we cut is a bit like elective dictatorship then I can't help further.

It comes with having a large majority, Blair did what he wanted, fair enough, he had the same wherewithal.
There is no point listening to someone objecting to what you want to do just for the sake of it, if after wasting
this time, you get to do exactly what you want anyway.
Bleating about democracy, when that system has shunned giving you the power to act out your beliefs, is
another pointless exercise.
Anyway, Brexit has just passed.

 

[blueparrot]

It comes with having a large majority, Blair did what he wanted, fair enough, he had the same wherewithal.
There is no point listening to someone objecting to what you want to do just for the sake of it, if after wasting
this time, you get to do exactly what you want anyway.
Bleating about democracy, when that system has shunned giving you the power to act out your beliefs, is
another pointless exercise.
Anyway, Brexit has just passed.

Well passed to the next stage, now we have the same arguments all over again of how long he negotiations will last.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It comes with having a large majority, Blair did what he wanted, fair enough, he had the same wherewithal.
There is no point listening to someone objecting to what you want to do just for the sake of it, if after wasting
this time, you get to do exactly what you want anyway.
Bleating about democracy, when that system has shunned giving you the power to act out your beliefs, is
another pointless exercise.
Anyway, Brexit has just passed.

Brexit passed last year .... only this time the Tories have removed workers rights




and the rights of British young people to take advantage of educational opportunities abroad



and the rights of unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with their families

 

[Vic]

It comes with having a large majority, Blair did what he wanted, fair enough, he had the same wherewithal.
There is no point listening to someone objecting to what you want to do just for the sake of it, if after wasting
this time, you get to do exactly what you want anyway.
Bleating about democracy, when that system has shunned giving you the power to act out your beliefs, is
another pointless exercise.
Anyway, Brexit has just passed.

Our system of democracy has given us a Brexit that most people in Britain never wanted or asked for. Just saying.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Brexit passed last year .... only this time the Tories have removed workers rights




and the rights of British young people to take advantage of educational opportunities abroad



and the rights of unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with their families

Why on earth would we be following EU diktats now, we're out of it FFS, we do not need telling how to
protect/educate/decide immigration strategy by them now, I know you think we have to have our hands held and be led by someone
from two parliaments in Brussels and Strasbourg, but those days are gone, finished, dead.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Our system of democracy has given us a Brexit that most people in Britain never wanted or asked for. Just saying.

Oh really, what kind of Brexit would that be then, one that means not really leaving, and the other nonsensical
offerings suggested recently by those who lost the argument?

 

[hilts]

Ideas start by floating them, are you insinuating the EU fishermen are going to break the law after Brexit? Things are going to change and we have to adapt, it's no use just saying the same stuff all the time with a deathly toll of negativity.

Give some Mexicans short term visas and an ankle tag. Buy a shit load of those plastic snorkels you get on the sea front at Blackpool and give them minimum wage(local b&b cost deducted)

We could have a wall surrounding our great isle 20 miles off shore within 2 months.

 

[joe123]

Why on earth would we be following EU diktats now, we're out of it FFS, we do not need telling how to
protect/educate/decide immigration strategy by them now, I know you think we have to have our hands held and be led by someone
from two parliaments in Brussels and Strasbourg, but those days are gone, finished, dead.

We don't just have to reject everything out of hand because the EU thought of it first.

"we would do the decent thing and protect the right for refugees to be reunited with their family, but the EU came up with that one, so we're having to fuck it off. sorry lads."

 

[blueinsa]

We don't just have to reject everything out of hand because the EU thought of it first.

Absolutely they did.

Civilisation as we know it barely existed before the EU did.

 

[joe123]

Absolutely they did.

Civilisation as we know it barely existed before the EU did.

Eh? Clearly not the point I'm making.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Brexit passed last year .... only this time the Tories have removed workers rights




and the rights of British young people to take advantage of educational opportunities abroad



and the rights of unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with their families

Excellent. We should be setting our own laws, not binding ourselves to someone else's.

 

[Chippy_boy]

We don't just have to reject everything out of hand because the EU thought of it first.

"we would do the decent thing and protect the right for refugees to be reunited with their family, but the EU came up with that one, so we're having to fuck it off. sorry lads."

I think you are spectacularly missing the point. Whether and to what extent we wish to protect the rights of refugees in the UK is a matter entirely for the UK. We are not rejecting their rights, but such obligations do not belong in a Withdrawal Agreement.

When you buy a new car, you do not expect to have to have provisions about child care payments in the leasing contract.

 

[blueinsa]

Excellent. We should be setting our own laws, not binding ourselves to someone else's.

We have been making employment law since the 1833 Factory act.

Im 100% certain we will continue to do so and be just fine.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

We don't just have to reject everything out of hand because the EU thought of it first.

"we would do the decent thing and protect the right for refugees to be reunited with their family, but the EU came up with that one, so we're having to fuck it off. sorry lads."

We can, and will formulate our own policies, that's the point.

 

[joe123]

We can, and will formulate our own policies, that's the point.

I await the policy on child refugee rights with bated breath.

 

[grunge]

We have been making employment law since the 1833 Factory act.

Im 100% certain we will continue to do so and be just fine.

Having worked in an industry that is renowned for being very crunch heavy, with people being forced to sign the opt out of the working time directive, I'm not convinced in the slightest.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I await the policy on child refugee rights with bated breath.

You are fixated on something that's causing you outrage, many other things that were encapsulated into British law,
will also be jettisoned. I think you're missing the point here.

 

[blueinsa]

Have any remainers read the WA and noticed that we have taken on board all EU law made over the course of our membership and that they are now UK law?