Another new Brexit thread

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Ban-jani said:
Well if you’d read any of my posts recently you’d know that I’m against fox hunting and I’m happy to have a referendum on the Royals once the Queen goes. The comments about a bulldog and a flag are cheap and ridiculous and an insult to critical thinking.

I didn’t say Allen was responsible, I said she epitomises modern liberalism that is. With their systematic policies of eradicating the family unit, one example being 4th wave corporate feminism and the insistence of turning women into wage slaves. If you want an example from Allen, her hysterical virtue signalling when she visited the Calais Jungle is one.

Any more questions?
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Which is why in my original response to you I said Lily Allen and her ilk (and also ceded the point that she might be an idiot although she is a well meaning one). I don’t see systematic policies to eradicate the family unit and frankly I don’t know what you are on about with 4th wave feminism so googled it. I’m not sure how you reach the conclusion they insist on turning women into wage slaves.

As for your comment about critical thinking you really need to get over yourself
 
journolud said:
Which is why in my original response to you I said Lily Allen and her ilk (and also ceded the point that she might be an idiot although she is a well meaning one). I don’t see systematic policies to eradicate the family unit and frankly I don’t know what you are on about with 4th wave feminism so googled it. I’m not sure how you reach the conclusion they insist on turning women into wage slaves.

As for your comment about critical thinking you really need to get over yourself
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If you don’t see it then it’s your problem but I’ll explain. The neoliberal global landscape, added together with liberal social values, has meant that working class households now need to have two income earners and corporations, seeing the opportunity, have worked with modern feminism to push women into their organisation’s roles. Families now have no choice but to have both parents working full time, eroding the family unit and all the while quotas on women in jobs is pushed as a positive to achieve. Private life and a right to enjoy that life with your family, is what freedom used to mean in this country.

For the record I don’t care if it’s men or women staying home, it’s just the way it’s been done by corporate feminism that means I’m forced to criticise it happening to women.

I’m sure Allen, and many alt social liberals, mean well but it doesn’t mean they’re not damaging.

Well don’t post utter contrived nonsense, to try and paint a narrative of nationalism, about me as a poster when you know absolutely nothing about me and clearly not my views.
 
Ban-jani said:
If you don’t see it then it’s your problem but I’ll explain. The neoliberal global landscape, added together with liberal social values, has meant that working class households now need to have two income earners and corporations, seeing the opportunity, have worked with modern feminism to push women into their organisation’s roles. Families now have no choice but to have both parents working full time, eroding the family unit and all the while quotas on women in jobs is pushed as a positive to achieve. Private life and a right to enjoy that life with your family, is what freedom used to mean in this country.

For the record I don’t care if it’s men or women staying home, it’s just the way it’s been done by corporate feminism that means I’m forced to criticise it happening to women.

I’m sure Allen, and many alt social liberals, mean well but it doesn’t mean they’re not damaging.

Well don’t post utter contrived nonsense, to try and paint a narrative of nationalism, about me as a poster when you know absolutely nothing about me and clearly not my views.
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To be fair I know plenty about your views because you are a pretty prolific poster on here and not shy about voicing an opinion. I’m sorry that you took my poor attempt at satire as an attempt to paint you as a nationalist as I know you aren’t. I think you take yourself much too seriously though and are pretty unforgiving of those who don’t share your views.

Id agree with you that the family unit has evolved out of financial necessity but don’t agree that is the result of deliberate policy choices. I also don’t agree with what you appear to be suggesting that having both parents out at work is necessarily to the detriment of the family. Bringing up lidless is a bit more complex than that
 
journolud said:
To be fair I know plenty about your views because you are a pretty prolific poster on here and not shy about voicing an opinion. I’m sorry that you took my poor attempt at satire as an attempt to paint you as a nationalist as I know you aren’t. I think you take yourself much too seriously though and are pretty unforgiving of those who don’t share your views.

Id agree with you that the family unit has evolved out of financial necessity but don’t agree that is the result of deliberate policy choices. I also don’t agree with what you appear to be suggesting that having both parents out at work is necessarily to the detriment of the family. Bringing up lidless is a bit more complex than that
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Believe me I do not take myself too seriously and I am well aware many will disagree with me. I only have to speak to my colleagues about anything mildly political to know we are chasms apart, as well as many on here, the world is full of Chuka Umunna clones. I am unforgiving when people claim my views to be something more sinister, not that you were necessarily doing that but I thought the implications of nationalism were going down that route.

The trouble is, anyone who doesn’t conform to the way of thinking in the modern West, is lambasted for it.

Everything is policy, things like this do not just come about, it may or may not be government but it’s definitely corporations and pressure groups. How can you possibly think that parents or a parent spending less time with their children and at home isn’t detrimental to family life?
 
Ban-jani said:
Everything is policy, things like this do not just come about, it may or may not be government but it’s definitely corporations and pressure groups. How can you possibly think that parents or a parent spending less time with their children and at home isn’t detrimental to family life?
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We're veering off in a different direction but quality of parenting is as if not more important than how much time you spend with your kids. I'm part of a couple where we have both worked and in doing so like to think we've set an example. There are feckless and shitty parents who spend a lot of time with their kids and teach them nothing. All things being equal of course I'd agree that having a parent around at all times is a good thing but its not that simple. Kids are being parented by their x boxes nowadays irrespective of where their parents are, often in the same house on facebook. Anyway, as I say a whole different discussion.
 
She seems so angry, particularly as she 'won'. Definitely not a champagne socialist, thought. So a big tick for her......

 
journolud said:
We're veering off in a different direction but quality of parenting is as if not more important than how much time you spend with your kids. I'm part of a couple where we have both worked and in doing so like to think we've set an example. There are feckless and shitty parents who spend a lot of time with their kids and teach them nothing. All things being equal of course I'd agree that having a parent around at all times is a good thing but its not that simple. Kids are being parented by their x boxes nowadays irrespective of where their parents are, often in the same house on facebook. Anyway, as I say a whole different discussion.
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Of course the quality of parenting is more important than quantity, we both could give a number of examples of terrible parents that would have been a benefit to the children if they weren’t around as much but if we go by the majority, in that the majority are caring and decent parents, more time can only be a better thing and I think it would do well to helping the family unit. I know few people who are parents and have the now luxury of one being able to stay home, it’s not an attack on hard working people. After all, I’m the byproduct of two working parents and divorce.

Let’s leave this now as it’s not related to Brexit and we can go back to debating the real issues, such as if Big Ben will chime for 5 minutes in a couple of weeks’ time.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
You should read up about it. I know their population is 8% of ours and their GDP is about 12% of ours but it just shows what you can do, if you’ve a mind to, and you don’t get stuck in pointless ideologies.
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Well I visit the place often enough and it doesn't seem very socialist to me but you live and learn.
 
dave_blue12 said:
I understand perfectly.

I'll make a deal with you - you don't tell me what I should do and I'll resist the temptation to tell you.
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I’ll make you a deal, stop trying to twist democratic results into some sort of different meaning, that haven’t gone your way, despite the fact 3 times now your position and mine has lost, and I’ll stop pulling you up on it.

The electorate wants Brexit and is getting it, our electoral system is based on representation, we all knew the rules of the game before these votes, in 2016 and 2017 and 2019 and trying to manipulate statistics to fit an agenda, when there would have been remainers voting Tory and leavers voting Labour still, is mass idiocy and unhelpful.
 
Ban-jani said:
No it actually seems you don’t and neither does that Dutch MEP who still hasn’t got the message.

I have let it go and so should you.
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No one who's still posting in this thread has let it go.

Why let it go that most Brits either really don't want to leave the EU or really weren't bothered? It's happening but don't pretend it's what most people want.
 
Vic said:
No one who's still posting in this thread has let it go.

Why let it go that most Brits either really don't want to leave the EU or really weren't bothered? It's happening but don't pretend it's what most people want.
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By all means discuss the agreement but it’s the constant attempt to bend votes to try and fit a narrative that needs to be let go.
 
Ban-jani said:
By all means discuss the agreement but it’s the constant attempt to bend votes to try and fit a narrative that needs to be let go.
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All due respect mate but it's a public forum.

Unless serious rules are being broken I really don't see why certain discourse should be curtailed as long as it stays on topic
 
Vic said:
No one who's still posting in this thread has let it go.

Why let it go that most Brits either really don't want to leave the EU or really weren't bothered? It's happening but don't pretend it's what most people want.
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Remain is more popular, it's just that fewer people vote for it.
Cheers for that one Hiroo Onoda.
 
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