Another new Brexit thread

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BobKowalski said:
Bong, bong.

After saying a fond, if reluctant, farewell to my extended Christmas and New Years break I return to find an almighty hoo-hah about Brexit bongs whilst the EU publish details on NI protocals in Belfast detailing that UK authorities are to implement EU rules on GB imports and carry out necessary checks and that this will be done under ECJ jurisdiction and EU reps have the right to be present and direct UK authorities to make these checks.

So whilst the EU make themselves at home (just don’t put your feet on the furniture lads) we get all dreamy over a bong.

Still, good to see we are focusing on the stuff that matters :)
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Welcome back bob, we remainers have been lost without you
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Aye, the electoral map now slathered in blue, all because of a Brexit that most didn't want.
It's an eye opener this place, must be why we love it so much ;)
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Which map?


UKelection2019_ElectionMap.png
 
Ban-jani said:
He can post what he wants and I’m allowed to tell him what he’s posting is unhelpful.

I’ve not told him not to post anything, just advice that he should let go the results of the last few years.

I’ve been one of the most argumentative remainers on this forum since 2016 and some leave voters still don’t like me for it but if there’s anything that’s been proven since 2016, it’s that the public still want Brexit and therefore we should talk about the future.

By all means try and argue subliminal messages from the electorate in the Euros and last GE but it’s false and not helpful.
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Helpful or not, it's true. https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-independent-poll-gap-between-leave-and-remain-narrows-2-2/ It's still not the will of the people (poll taken last week).

inbetween said:
A trench in a war that ended years ago.

I was a remainer and I accepted the result after the referendum and I have tried to look to the positive things it might bring.

The Brexit argument has been lost by remainers on every single test, it just needs to happen.
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How have you got on looking for positive things it might bring?

I think we've yet to hear from anyone as to how Brexit will help them personally, but there are millions who will be adversely affected. And I know you don't care, but Remainers are, and always will be, the winners of the arguments. Pity about the war.

No Corbyn, No Brexit. You all know that to be true.
 
BobKowalski said:
Bong, bong.

After saying a fond, if reluctant, farewell to my extended Christmas and New Years break I return to find an almighty hoo-hah about Brexit bongs whilst the EU publish details on NI protocals in Belfast detailing that UK authorities are to implement EU rules on GB imports and carry out necessary checks and that this will be done under ECJ jurisdiction and EU reps have the right to be present and direct UK authorities to make these checks.

So whilst the EU make themselves at home (just don’t put your feet on the furniture lads) we get all dreamy over a bong.

Still, good to see we are focusing on the stuff that matters :)
Click to expand...
So NI are staying in the EU then with GB out. Something no British Prime Minister could ever accept.
Thought so.
 
I see the awkward squad of experts in the House of Lords are pointing out all sorts of problems with the Johnson deal (as amended by Cummings after the election), and it's all getting full coverage in the media.
 
Ban-jani said:
I’ll make you a deal, stop trying to twist democratic results into some sort of different meaning, that haven’t gone your way, despite the fact 3 times now your position and mine has lost, and I’ll stop pulling you up on it.

The electorate wants Brexit and is getting it, our electoral system is based on representation, we all knew the rules of the game before these votes, in 2016 and 2017 and 2019 and trying to manipulate statistics to fit an agenda, when there would have been remainers voting Tory and leavers voting Labour still, is mass idiocy and unhelpful.
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I don't give a flying fuck about a bent referendum result or a Tory Brexit Government or your advice.

Brexit was and is an act of idiotic self harm promoted by foreign agents with the help of helpful fools in this country. I will continue to point out such idiocy as and when I please and I really don't give a shit if you or anyone else find it unhelpful

For the record I find many of your posts to be childish oversimplifications but hey ho live and let live eh.

Oh and to the usual suspects who I feel sure will be itching to respond, don't bother as I rarely read your idiotic responses.
 
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dave_blue12 said:
I don't give a flying fuck about a bent referendum result or a Tory Brexit Government or your advice.

Brexit was and is an act of idiotic self harm promoted by foreign agents with the help of helpful fools in this country. I will continue to point out such idiocy as and when I please and I really don't give a shit if you or anyone else find it unhelpful

For the record I find many of your posts to be childish oversimplifications but hey ho live and let live eh.
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Pretty childish and insulting considering @Ban-jani essentially agrees with you on Brexit, and has expressed the problems with it much more clearly than you seem to be able to.
 
BobKowalski said:
Bong, bong.

After saying a fond, if reluctant, farewell to my extended Christmas and New Years break I return to find an almighty hoo-hah about Brexit bongs whilst the EU publish details on NI protocals in Belfast detailing that UK authorities are to implement EU rules on GB imports and carry out necessary checks and that this will be done under ECJ jurisdiction and EU reps have the right to be present and direct UK authorities to make these checks.

So whilst the EU make themselves at home (just don’t put your feet on the furniture lads) we get all dreamy over a bong.

Still, good to see we are focusing on the stuff that matters :)
Click to expand...
Oh fuck, he’s back. ;0)
 
dave_blue12 said:
I don't give a flying fuck about a bent referendum result or a Tory Brexit Government or your advice.

Brexit was and is an act of idiotic self harm promoted by foreign agents with the help of helpful fools in this country. I will continue to point out such idiocy as and when I please and I really don't give a shit if you or anyone else find it unhelpful

For the record I find many of your posts to be childish oversimplifications but hey ho live and let live eh.

Oh and to the usual suspects who I feel sure will be itching to respond, don't bother as I rarely read your idiotic responses.
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Why do you think it was “bent”?

Who are these foreign agents?

On the contrary I’ve posted more detail against Brexit than you my friend. I’m just not stuck in 2017/2018 when we thought it could be turned around.

Can I ask you a question, is there a democratic vote that could take place in the UK that you would accept?
 
Vic said:
Helpful or not, it's true. https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-independent-poll-gap-between-leave-and-remain-narrows-2-2/ It's still not the will of the people (poll taken last week).



How have you got on looking for positive things it might bring?

I think we've yet to hear from anyone as to how Brexit will help them personally, but there are millions who will be adversely affected. And I know you don't care, but Remainers are, and always will be, the winners of the arguments. Pity about the war.

No Corbyn, No Brexit. You all know that to be true.
Click to expand...

I hate to break it to you my friend, but we had an exercise in 2016 where this question was asked to every adult in the nation.
More of them responded than for any other question they had ever been asked in the history of our nation. Ever.
Polling stations saw long queues all day, people who had never voted before, or not for many years, turned out to take part in the single greatest exercise in participative democracy in over 1000 years. Indeed ever. In the entire history of our nation.
For weeks leading up to the question being asked, millions were glued to their TVs and newspapers. Both sides were represented. The govt spent millions on a leaflet delivered to every home in the land spelling out, explicitly, that leaving meant leaving the CU and the SM and that the people's vote would be respected and enacted whatever the choice.

The people spoke. For many it was a once in a lifetime chance to actually influence the nation's future. A chance to have their say listened to. It was the greatest example of democracy ever seen in our country. Indeed ever seen in many other countries too.

And the millions turned out to vote, secure in the knowledge that their political masters of every political stripe had promised to respect them. To respect their choice. Their democratic choice.

And they voted in their millions to leave.

And the next day the machinations began.

Many Tory MPs, every right wing labour MP, every single lib dem MP and most independent MPs began to row back from their sacred promise to respect the people.

You see, what we didn't know, what was never told to us, is that we are too stupid, too northern, too working class, too damn ignorant to have a voice worth listening to.

We didn't know that our voice only counted if we lived in a leafy middle class suburb. It only counted if we sent our kids to a school that didn't have too many kids on free school meals. If we didn't speak with an estuary English accent we weren't to be listened to. We were to be ignored for our own good. We needed to be saved from ourselves by our far cleverer masters and their lickspittles hiding amongst us in our workplaces and our football forums.

And they nearly succeeded. Very very nearly.

Only the duplicity and rank stupidity of Corbyn moving inexorably to the right of his previous centre in order to appease his PLP and their friends, indeed paymasters, in the boardrooms of banks and multi nationals stopped another hung parliament and another few years of our betters telling us they were going to selflessly save us from ourselves.

Every time the British people have been asked this question or some variety of it since 2016, including two GEs, the answer has been clear. Loud and clear.

"We may be too thick, we may be too racist, we may speak with accents you struggle to understand, but for over 40 years you have been selling us a pup. A pup that has made you rich and successful but has contributed to our economic downfall and the destruction of our communities. A pup signed up to by a Tory PM, a pup expanded by a Tory PM, a pup designed by rich 'liberals' to make them richer and us poorer and we've had enough. We're voting to leave and we expect you to honour it. Our vote is worth just as much as yours however much you wish it weren't.

And there are more of us than you.

We're voting for a country that can have the govt accountable to the people much more fully. We're removing the political equivalent of "the dog ate my homework" ("the EU won't let us so aww shucks we're going to have to make the most if it").

The people have spoken. Again. And again. And again. And their voice has remained resolute. We want to leave. And we're leaving.
 
Of course Remainers are entitled to their views but personally I don't bother reading them any more as the fact is we are leaving the EU.

In just over two weeks we won't be a member and at the end of this year we will either have agreed a deal with the EU or we will (initially) trade on WTO terms. We can then see how it all pans out in the coming years and at some point there will be an election in which people can vote for whatever party they wish to.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
"We may be too thick, we may be too racist, we may speak with accents you struggle to understand, but for over 40 years you have been selling us a pup. A pup that has made you rich and successful but has contributed to our economic downfall and the destruction of our communities. A pup signed up to by a Tory PM, a pup expanded by a Tory PM, a pup designed by rich 'liberals' to make them richer and us poorer and we've had enough. We're voting to leave and we expect you to honour it. Our vote is worth just as much as yours however much you wish it weren't.
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Leaving aside the rest of your post, which despite being a remainer I have some sympathy with, what makes you believe it was EU membership that led to the economic decline of the regions and destruction of communities? What evidence do you have for this? And do you honestly believe that it would have panned out differently if we hadn't been in the EU for the last 40 years?
 
allblackcitizen said:
Leaving aside the rest of your post, which despite being a remainer I have some sympathy with, what makes you believe it was EU membership that led to the economic decline of the regions and destruction of communities? What evidence do you have for this? And do you honestly believe that it would have panned out differently if we hadn't been in the EU for the last 40 years?
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I'm pretty sure a lot of what happened may well have happened in some form either way.
But I'm equally sure that the British manufacturing base was sacrificed by successive govts at the altar of "European cooperation"

We gave up our manufacturing prowess - which despite attempts to paint otherwise was the best in the western world for over a century - and Germany got it. In return we got squillions of pounds worth of "services" work, the vast majority of which was based in or around London and the south east.
France got agriculture etc etc.

Would a British govt have given up our shipbuilding,car making, coal mining, and heavy industry so easily without the EU? We'll never know for sure of course but how many times do you hear the phrase "we never make stuff anymore". They'll tell you it is because the British working class priced themselves out of the "new, emerging markets" but that's frankly bollocks as Germany , which still has a huge manufacturing base, pays much higher wages and costs on business but is a world leader. It's why they fixed the euro at the expense of southern Europe to help German manufacturing.

Thank god Gordon brown hated Tony Blair enough to block our accepting the euro or we would never have been able to leave.
 
allblackcitizen said:
Leaving aside the rest of your post, which despite being a remainer I have some sympathy with, what makes you believe it was EU membership that led to the economic decline of the regions and destruction of communities? What evidence do you have for this? And do you honestly believe that it would have panned out differently if we hadn't been in the EU for the last 40 years?
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It's not like that tho'. A forensic analysis would show that the decline of the North has little to do with EU membership. But it has everything to do with a cynical establishment that threw the north under a bus for their own political advantage. Tories looked after their natural friends and labour simply took working class northern votes for granted while they cultivated their new constituency of liberals, academics, metropolitan middle class theoretical and pretend socialists etc.
So the red wall voted both in the referendum and the GE to give these ppl a bloody nose. And guess what? For the first time since 1945, they have to listen. Boris is not the clown he has pretended to be. Shrewdly, he has told those communities he will support them, nuture them and invest in them. Well, he better had or vengence will be great. And he will, because he wants the votes.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
....

And there are more of us than you.
...
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Sorry not to have read it all, but it's this bit I don't get. Those supporting parties offering a second referendum won more than half of the votes in the general election. Despite this they won only 267 seats across Great Britain, compared to 365 for the Conservatives.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
I'm pretty sure a lot of what happened may well have happened in some form either way.
But I'm equally sure that the British manufacturing base was sacrificed by successive govts at the altar of "European cooperation"

We gave up our manufacturing prowess - which despite attempts to paint otherwise was the best in the western world for over a century - and Germany got it. In return we got squillions of pounds worth of "services" work, the vast majority of which was based in or around London and the south east.
France got agriculture etc etc.

Would a British govt have given up our shipbuilding,car making, coal mining, and heavy industry so easily without the EU? We'll never know for sure of course but how many times do you hear the phrase "we never make stuff anymore". They'll tell you it is because the British working class priced themselves out of the "new, emerging markets" but that's frankly bollocks as Germany , which still has a huge manufacturing base, pays much higher wages and costs on business but is a world leader. It's why they fixed the euro at the expense of southern Europe to help German manufacturing.

Thank god Gordon brown hated Tony Blair enough to block our accepting the euro or we would never have been able to leave.
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The single most vocal economist promoting Leave was doing it on the basis that we had to give up what's left of manufacturing in this country.
 
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