Crystal Palace (H) - Post Match

[mcs]

As for the VAR nonsense, we would have been livid if the ball had struck our defender and a penalty had been awarded. A

I don't agree. Reading the rule as it stands, I can see how the referee gave it as a penalty, and turned around the other way, I would of been frustrated with it, but accepting it too. Likewise, I could see how one might wave it away and not give it as a penalty - again I think there is reasonable evidence to support that. What I can't see is how VAR demonstrated there to be a 'clear and obvious error', given the way the handball rule is currently drafted.

I think plenty of people haven't actually looked that closely at the rule as it now stands - and go back to what they think on the basis of the old rule, which was very different. There is two elements to the rule now - the part about foot/body etc to hand at close range, but also the element about the body not being 'unnaturally bigger'. I can see both sides in regards to the second aspect.

Likewise, with the Zaha decision earlier in the game, I think both a penalty and a non-penalty call could be argued to be reasonable. It would have been a very soft penalty for mine had it been given, and I think VAR got it right in terms of there not being a clear and obvious error. But I think there would have been enough in it, had the referee pointed the spot to say it wasn't a clear and obvious error.

The problems with VAR stem with the shitty way it has been implemented.

 

[mcfcphil]

Di you read what I posted properly and, if you did, did you understand what I was saying? I suspect that the answer to the first is no. People say there's no humour on here any more but it's also getting harder to have an intelligent discussion.

Yes I read it a couple of times. You said the board may have a difficult decision to make. You also said things might be going stale.

Nothing to do with a lack of humour or intellectual prowess on the board, I just find the fact you’re even raising the question of Guardiola pretty bizarre.

All opinions though. Have a good Sunday.

 

[Marvin]

I don't agree. Reading the rule as it stands, I can see how the referee gave it as a penalty, and turned around the other way, I would of been frustrated with it, but accepting it too. Likewise, I could see how one might wave it away and not give it as a penalty - again I think there is reasonable evidence to support that. What I can't see is how VAR demonstrated there to be a 'clear and obvious error', given the way the handball rule is currently drafted.

I think plenty of people haven't actually looked that closely at the rule as it now stands - and go back to what they think on the basis of the old rule, which was very different. There is two elements to the rule now - the part about foot/body etc to hand at close range, but also the element about the body not being 'unnaturally bigger'. I can see both sides in regards to the second aspect.

Likewise, with the Zaha decision earlier in the game, I think both a penalty and a non-penalty call could be argued to be reasonable. It would have been a very soft penalty for mine had it been given, and I think VAR got it right in terms of there not being a clear and obvious error.

The problems with VAR stem with the shitty way it has been implemented.

The problem with VAR comes down to the 2-3 time delay for a decision that is still subjective.

People expected a technological solution not a 2nd opinion.

 

[eastmanc]

just because we won’t win the league doesn’t mean we’ve gone stale!

We’re 2nd in the league, on the verge of Wembley, still in FA Cup and topped our CL group with a game to come against Real Madrid.

But you think we should consider replacing the manager because we won’t win the league for the third year on the bounce.

Astonishing level of disrespect towards Guardiola for what he has achieved here - but more importantly a huge disrespect towards him for thinking he won’t continue to be successful with city.

It seems to me that Pep is trying to get everyone in form for that Real Madrid game. Hence all the changing of systems and personnel. He knows, and has for some time, we are not good enough, because of issues with injures to key players and losing our captain, who we should have replaced but where do you get another Vinny for below 100 million. We are now getting our players back and hopefully he can put out the right team against Real to win the tie. Just because we are not making a great fist of our title challenge, you can’t win every year, does it mean Pep isn’t the man. If unshited would have been knee jerk every time they had a poorish season, Fergie would gone way before his 25 years were up. I think Pep deserves our backing as fans, keep the faith.

 

[Phil1]

Go on then, what's his blind spot?

Used to be no plan B. Now he’s changing it up too much.
Then it was his teams can’t defend before having two seasons where we had the best defensive record.
Now it’s something about us not being any good when players XYZ play together...
There will always be perceived blind spots, but basically it ends up being a case of some bloke on a forum thinking they know better than the best in the world.

 

[northwichblue]

Serious question, do we actually have a specialist defensive coach

 

[mcs]

The problem with VAR comes down to the 2-3 time delay for a decision that is still subjective.

People expected a technological solution not a 2nd opinion.

As I said, that ain't a problem with the VAR concept, that's a problem with how its been implemented.

Make the referee on the park the final decision maker for all bar the blatantly obviously wrong decisions (that can be easily fixed) + offsides, and force them to use VAR to watch replays, then assess whether they will maintain the original decision, or change it. But most importantly, make them transparently justify their decisions in a consistent manner. Would solve a whole swathe of the issues with VAR almost immediately, if as you say, the '2nd opinion' is removed from all but an advisory role (I.e. in the ear piece saying you need to take another look at this one).

 

[robbieh]

Go on then, what's his blind spot?

Defensively his philosophy of dominating possession high up the pitch leaves us exposed on numerous occasions. Teams score against regularly from limited attempts on goal. Why because they get gilt edged chances.

 

[sir baconface]

What I can't understand is where this half-arsed approach to some games comes from. It was there already agains Brighton when we pressed half-heartedly which put pressure on the defenders and Laporte got injured. Then we were half-arsed against Norwich...Already from the pace of the first passes I can tell whether the necessary concentration to move the ball quickly is there or not.

Guess the players haven't been mentally up for another battle in the league and have decided for themselves that the CL is the priority this season, especially after seeing Liverpool players getting much more recognition than our players.

If this is the case we won't be lethargic in the CL. But if you are not totally concentrated in the league you might find it hard to switch to electric football in the CL. I hope that all the pain in the league will help us perform better in the CL.

We still show the ability to be really up for it in certain games, particularly if we get an early break. Villa was an example. First half v rags was another. With Liverpool’s lead being pretty well unassailable, I can see why we will now prioritise CL. The snag is that any game can turn in a minute on one lapse or piece of bad luck. If it’s a cup game, you’re then out on your arse.

 

[Phil1]

Defensively his philosophy of dominating possession high up the pitch leaves us exposed on numerous occasions. Teams score against regularly from limited attempts on goal. Why because they get gilt edged chances.

That’s not a blind spot. It’s his game, basically a risk/reward strategy that requires us to not make mistakes in possession high up the pitch.
Sometimes it doesn’t work.
He won’t be changing it anytime soon seeing as it’s a philosophy that has made him one of the most successful managers in history.

 

[OB1]

I think it is a major rebuild . - not in numbers but in the improtance and quality of players/people we are going to have to replace

Kompany - no replacement as of yet - one of the best centre halves the prem has ever seen and added to that the leadership quality he had - that in itself is very hard to duplicate

David Silva - Foden is seen as the replacement and there is nothing to suggest he can't do this - BUT he has a lot to prove and there is a long way to go. Pep has come out and said we ARE NOT going to replace silva - and we have Foden and Bernardo Silva as his replacements - but again, like Kompany, replacing Silva's technical ability is one thing - replacing his ability to dictate a game even without the ball is another almost impossible task

Kun - the biggest task of all - maybe impossible? GJ is a fine striker BUT he aint and never will be a Kun replacement. He wont go onto score the important goals in tight games (think the Kun goal in the 2-1 vs the scousers last year) - GJ never scores that ever. Its those goals that Kun has consistently scored that make him irreplaceable not just the numbers he posts. We are going to have to break our transfer record by a long way to get anyone near the calibre and we may still not get close.....

Ferna - his influence and ability is underrated - he may go another 12 months but we need to replace him - another huge task as not only is he an expert in his main position, his ability as a utility player is beyond anything Ive ever seen - he may not be the greatest centre half the prem has ever seen or will see but he still outshines most who call it their day job - he would do that as a fullback as well (Peps comments about him in the past tell you everything you need to know) - finding a player with such qualities is extremely hard

And in the middle of all that you have the Pep question -Id love him to stay forever and as you clearly say I dont think we will ever have a better manager - but the only way this rebuild works for the club is that we are rebuilding with a new manager in mind (unless we somehow manage to persuade Pep to stay for another 2-3 . years after his contract runs out - Id love this to happen but the man clearly has ambitions and some of them may be outside of football back in his home country).


Added to that you then have the general squad rebuild that you say needs to happen every few years.....I guess this is why Txixi and Ferran are paid so much - where do you even start?!?!?!!?

Not going to labour semantics but by major rebuild, I mean numbers of players.

We absolutely have to be buying top quality players. I don't think we should get hung up about the irreplaceability of individuals. The way we play has to be more important than individuals and that includes the manager. The next manager has to be able to play the City way, which does not mean having to the a positional play guy, but does mean high defensive line, pressing, attractive attacking football and a passing game.

I think Kun and Fern will still be with us next season so it's not essential to replace them this summer. A brilliant CB is key for me as is a Sane replacement if he goes.

We never replaced Yaya with a like for like but went on to greater success. It's a team game and it has to be about the team.

 

[hgblue]

Defensively his philosophy of dominating possession high up the pitch leaves us exposed on numerous occasions. Teams score against regularly from limited attempts on goal. Why because they get gilt edged chances.

Sorry mate, I can’t help but chuckle at some random City fan on a football forum pointing out the shortcomings of arguably the greatest manager there’s ever been. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I have to point out that Pep has forgotten more about football than you’ll ever know. I’m not saying you shouldn’t have an opinion but you should maybe bear this n mind. The idea that Pep doesn’t understand the tactical drawbacks of different systems when his tactics have transformed the way football is played is truly laughable.

 

[warringtonblue]

Defensively his philosophy of dominating possession high up the pitch leaves us exposed on numerous occasions. Teams score against regularly from limited attempts on goal. Why because they get gilt edged chances.

I’ve been saying this for a while, the chances to goals scored against us is phenomenal. It must be running at 90%. Now compare that to our conversion rate up front

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Ederson
Walker
Laporte
Ferny
Mendy
Foden
KDB
Silva
Gundog
Mahrez
Aguero
Jesus

We got all that and we need a major rebuild? wtf

1 or 2 players required to complete us.

 

[OB1]

That’s not a blind spot. It’s his game, basically a risk/reward strategy that requires us to not make mistakes in possession high up the pitch.
Sometimes it doesn’t work.
He won’t be changing it anytime soon seeing as it’s a philosophy that has made him one of the most successful managers in history.

You're on fire today ;-)

This is the correct answer.

Pep knows exactly what he is doing, why he is doing it and what the risks are. He's also always trying to work out how concede less counter attacks and coach his players to do the things that minimise them.

We concede less shots at goal than any other team so Pep's philosophy has a lot of merit.

 

[simon23]

Not going to labour semantics but by major rebuild, I mean numbers of players.

We absolutely have to be buying top quality players. I don't think we should get hung up about the irreplaceability of individuals. The way we play has to be more important than individuals and that includes the manager. The next manager has to be able to play the City way, which does not mean having to the a positional play guy, but does mean high defensive line, pressing, attractive attacking football and a passing game.

I think Kun and Fern will still be with us next season so it's not essential to replace them this summer. A brilliant CB is key for me as is a Sane replacement if he goes.

We never replaced Yaya with a like for like but went on to greater success. It's a team game and it has to be about the team.

While i agree with all your points those players are not 4 individuals - they are the backbone of what has been a very successful team.

Finding another manager who wants to play in the way you describe (again completely agree with you it has to be that way) wont be hard - finding one who can do it as succesfully as Pep due to the way he thinks about positional play and how indivduals give certain things to certain positions could be a lot harder than you think.

And while Kun and Fern may well be with us next season - it would be poor planning to be at not least thinking and targeting those to replace them - look at what having no replacement for Kopany has done. it was foolish to think we could manage with two centre halves backed up by an ageing and quite frankly clearly not good enough Ottomendi

 

[St.Pauli support]

We've been bullied by Palace in numerous situations.
IN the build-up to the 2-2 Fern had at least 2 chances to go down
the way the Palace giant is working on him with his arms.

VVD would go down, goal VARed out.

 

[simon23]

That’s not a blind spot. It’s his game, basically a risk/reward strategy that requires us to not make mistakes in possession high up the pitch.
Sometimes it doesn’t work.
He won’t be changing it anytime soon seeing as it’s a philosophy that has made him one of the most successful managers in history.

agree - its a balance between the risks and the rewards with the way he sets up

but do you think he should adjust it slightly when he knows its going to be a much bigger issue than normal (or another way of putting it - the risks start to outweigh the rewards -ie playing the scousers who have 3 of the fastest forwards in the prem who are all technically gifted on one vs ones and with space to operate - who only need a half chance to score let alone the gilt edges chances Pep system does afford any team at times.

I wouldnt change it for the world (or Pep) but there are times I think he could just be a little different.

 

[stan bowles]

Got no mention, recognition, indeed wasn't shown at all on motd post match analysis whereas every other goal for every other team was. When Jesus put that ball across I expected it to go out for touch but Aguero, from nowhere like a flash was onto it and gobbled it up like the goal hungry monster he is. His second was a very neat header concluding his 250th and 251st goal for City but not deemed worthy of showing or mentioning in between repeating Palace's equalizer over and over again.

I wasn't just meaning credit from national media platforms - I meant from City fans as well. Jesus should be starting most games - he can play in any of the front 3 positions and is in better form atm than both Sterling and Bernardo and is more consistent that Mahrez. Jesus just doesn't get enough appreciation from City fans because "he will never be good enough" to replace their darling Aguero. Right now, our best starting XI would have both of them in it. The assist for Aguero's first was imo better than KDB's v Villa. Aguero took both goals really well it must be added.

 

[Phil1]

I wasn't just meaning credit from national media platforms - I meant from City fans as well. Jesus should be starting most games - he can play in any of the front 3 positions and is in better form atm than both Sterling and Bernardo and is more consistent that Mahrez. Jesus just doesn't get enough appreciation from City fans because "he will never be good enough" to replace their darling Aguero. Right now, our best starting XI would have both of them in it. The assist for Aguero's first was imo better than KDB's v Villa. Aguero took both goals really well it must be added.

There’s a reason why Aguero is our ‘darling’