Another new Brexit thread

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Blue Hefner said:
Presumably the organisation will have to find out how many points (say) a nursing assistant needs. Then ask the applicants may have to prove they meet the points criteria(yet to be decided) i.e provide documentation, go for exams etc. Then the employer will have to show proof of role. Presumably then the organisation would be required to send that to the government, wait for approval, then wait for visa/work permit to be issues* - that will take a while, longer than it does now - this may not be worthwhile to home, business or building site. Ultimately they might pull the whole thing. If you need 20 people, only 10 are from the UK and you have to apply for 20 visas they might just forget the whole project

As far as the employee goes, they might not bother. Why when they can go somewhere else without such administration before they have even left their front door

One of the sells to Leave was lest red tape and bureaucracy
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Presumption is the mother of all fuck ups normally mate ;-)

Of course non of us know the exact details right now but credit to you for making out the case that it might just be not worth it for business and they will just pack it all in because well........that's what you do in business, not find a way to do what you always want and that is be successful by providing a service and thus making a profit.

I think I am safe to say that the UK is one of the go to destinations for migrants the world over and i dont see that changing at all post brexit and i include those within the EU that still want to come here, make their careers and lives.
 
blueinsa said:
Presumption is the mother of all fuck ups normally mate ;-)

Of course non of us know the exact details right now but credit to you for making out the case that it might just be not worth it for business and they will just pack it all in because well........that's what you do in business, not find a way to do what you always want and that is be successful by providing a service and thus making a profit.

I think I am safe to say that the UK is one of the go to destinations for migrants the world over and i dont see that changing at all post brexit and i include those within the EU that still want to come here, make their careers and lives.
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how many boats are there for migrants crossing the channel leaving the uk for the eu for a better life?
 
joe123 said:
It's obviously really good news as was mentioned yesterday, but let's put it in context - it's a sign that we're going for EU equivalence on financial services, and even the Telegraph say that this will help to "mitigate the economic blow dealt to the City by British institutions moving some of their assets and operations to European financial centres such as Paris and Frankfurt". But as I say, decent bit of news.
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I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s decent. Equivalence is ok but it is in the gift of the EU and can be rescinded as well as granted. It also means we will not be able to trade freely cross border if these moves prove necessary which ultimately means we will have created barriers to trade which will inhibit trade growth.

Essentially we are seeking to create a more complicated and costly infrastructure and interaction with the countries that surround us with duplication of functions, non recognition of qualifications and friction in goods. This is decent news for lawyers, custom agents and anyone else employed to navigate a more complex system and its attendant bureaucracy. On the other hand how likely this is in practice remains to be seen given the hostility of the devolved Govts, business sectors and the financial cost in doing all of this only to spend the next decade or so trying to negotiate away the very barriers we have created. Given our self imposed compressed timeframe to sort all this I guess we will find out in 6 to 8 months time which route we really intend to take.
 
Blue Hefner said:
Presumably the organisation will have to find out how many points (say) a nursing assistant needs. Then ask the applicants may have to prove they meet the points criteria(yet to be decided) i.e provide documentation, go for exams etc. Then the employer will have to show proof of role. Presumably then the organisation would be required to send that to the government, wait for approval, then wait for visa/work permit to be issues* - that will take a while, longer than it does now - this may not be worthwhile to home, business or building site. Ultimately they might pull the whole thing. If you need 20 people, only 10 are from the UK and you have to apply for 20 visas they might just forget the whole project

As far as the employee goes, they might not bother. Why when they can go somewhere else without such administration before they have even left their front door

One of the sells to Leave was lest red tape and bureaucracy
Click to expand...
I very much doubt in a healthcare "crisis", nurses and other healthcare workers seeking to work in the UK will be subject to the scrutinous requirements that you're suggesting.

As per your building analogy, this would mean the beginning of the end of the exploitation of cheap labour, which is a good thing, correct?
 
blueinsa said:
Presumption is the mother of all fuck ups normally mate ;-)

Of course non of us know the exact details right now but credit to you for making out the case that it might just be not worth it for business and they will just pack it all in because well........that's what you do in business, not find a way to do what you always want and that is be successful by providing a service and thus making a profit.

I think I am safe to say that the UK is one of the go to destinations for migrants the world over and i dont see that changing at all post brexit and i include those within the EU that still want to come here, make their careers and lives.
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So you don't know the details but you are ll for the system. I usually wait for details before supporting something......

Low margin business could struggle never mind the government cost to administrating all of this.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I very much doubt in a healthcare "crisis", nurses and other healthcare workers seeking to work in the UK will be subject to the scrutinous requirements that you're suggesting.

As per your building analogy, this would mean the beginning of the end of the exploitation of cheap labour, which is a good thing, correct?
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why wouldn't nurses be checked? If they weren't then a restaurant could say they needed a nurse and use them as a chef instead. You either use a points system or you don't. Other industries would argue the are also in crisis and are also important

No it wouldn't. It could lead to more if people are smuggled in. It could lead to less building sites i.e more unemployment

Long and short. I don't see the benefit and don't think it will work. You and others do - I really don't want to spend all day arguing the toss. We will see in 5 years if it is working or not working or if it has even been implemented
 
Blue Hefner said:
So you don't know the details but you are ll for the system.
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It will be a points based system similar to the Australian one so yes, i know the broad outline of it.

Blue Hefner said:
I usually wait for details before supporting something
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Pity you dont do the same when you dont know the details yourself yes?

Blue Hefner said:
Low margin business could struggle never mind the government cost to administrating all of this.
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Whats costs? Unless you know the full detail and wish to share then im going to say you are taking a complete guess here?

Round and round we go..........
 
Blue Hefner said:
why wouldn't nurses be checked? If they weren't then a restaurant could say they needed a nurse and use them as a chef instead. You either use a points system or you don't. Other industries would argue the are also in crisis and are also important

No it wouldn't. It could lead to more if people are smuggled in. It could lead to less building sites i.e more unemployment

Long and short. I don't see the benefit and don't think it will work. You and others do - I really don't want to spend all day arguing the toss. We will see in 5 years if it is working or not working or if it has even been implemented
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You don't see the issues with FOM and smuggling, but you do with a points-based system?

K.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I very much doubt in a healthcare "crisis", nurses and other healthcare workers seeking to work in the UK will be subject to the scrutinous requirements that you're suggesting.

As per your building analogy, this would mean the beginning of the end of the exploitation of cheap labour, which is a good thing, correct?
Click to expand...

I may be wrong and am happy to be corrected but isn't it the situation now that under FOM people can come to the UK from within the EU and then look for a job, of which there are plenty in the care industry as well as various other service industries (Pret a manger anyone). I'd be surpsised if unqualifed people come to the UK specifically looking for a job in care- it's poorly paid and difficult work but it is no doubt one of the options once you are here. I would also be surprised if there were a load of EU residents, under a new points based system who are likely to think it worht the effort to go through the process of applying for permission to move to another country for a low paid job when they could move anyewhere else in the EU and not be restriced to a particular employer (my experience, limited as it is of points based systems is that work permits are for specific jobs, not to generally give you the right to move to a country and then seek work).

Care workers outnumber nurses to a large degree in most care settings, whether it is hopsital (NHS) based or private care homes. The staff teams in these places can be pretty transient, constantly changing as people move from one care home to another or from one low paid job to an easier one eg on the tills at Tesco.

I'm sure that under a points based system any nurse who wants to come and work in the UK will be welcome, doctors too and other health professionals, and they might redress the balance of the increasing numbers going in opposite directions to Oz, NZ (how I wish I could persaude my family that is where we should be), Canada etc.

As for those expecting a glut of applications from "foreigners" to come and take our low paid care assistant jobs, and to have to commit to those particular employers only, I wouldn't hold your breath
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I very much doubt in a healthcare "crisis", nurses and other healthcare workers seeking to work in the UK will be subject to the scrutinous requirements that you're suggesting.

As per your building analogy, this would mean the beginning of the end of the exploitation of cheap labour, which is a good thing, correct?
Click to expand...

No. More likely you will see an increase in undocumented labour. An economy that needs labour will suck in labour and undocumented labour outside the system is easier to exploit.
 
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