Another new Brexit thread

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What should be becoming clear to any Leaver is the whoppers that they bought.

As part of the EU trading with the EU and now in a deal with Japan we had unfettered access to nearly one third of the worlds GDP. Now we don't We won't either because the EU 27 cannot give us any breaks, any deal that betters the one they have between themselves. Thats their treaty so as a result despite what was claimed in the referendum we will not have the same or better trading arrangements with the EU. The EU-Japan deal is written in a way that neither can offer anything better than they have agreed with any third party country - so we aren't doing a deal thats better than the EU's with Japan - nor any time soon despite what Johnson says.

The sooner Leave stops wrapping themselves in the Union flag and claiming anyone not toe-ing their line is not being patriotic and instead understood the difficulties facing us the better - it may well be some of them get a little bitter when they realise things are not going to be what they thought but sometimes the truth hurts.

Oh on the contrary what’s become clear to leavers and many who voted remain is how the “experts “ predictions on the remain side have failed to materialise but feel free to list all the predictions which have come true , which used to be posted on here every day.
 
That all depends on your determination of "better". Can we get a trade deal with Japan/other nations that makes items more affordable and benefits our economies? Yes.

No. We went back on our word and commitment with Japan and that will impact on our dealings with them. Japanese investment, firms and people have declined in the last two years and increased in the rest of the EU. That will likely be the trend for the next decade.

As for making items more affordable I suspect our latest strategy of looking to impose high tariffs on goods may prove problematic. Also no idea how leaving a trading bloc with no internal tariffs makes anything more affordable or how imposing trade barriers on good and services benefits any economy. Negative tariffs perhaps?
 
He keeps fighting the economic argument, which most leavers have already accepted there is work to be done. but not one that is impossible to overcome and have accepted it will take time but the benefits of leaving outweigh our intentions of voting the way we did as we voted for another purpose.

He's completely ignored the other arguments about the politisation of Europe, federalisation of Europe, authoritarianism of Europe as he dismisses them as pure fantasy and nonsense.
This is why he will never understand or accept the leave decision.

This is true and it’s what will continue to divide us. I just don’t believe the EU superstate scare stories and actually liked my/our identity as an EU nation, and can’t see how the EU was negatively impacting our lives, and never will. Will obviously have to see how it goes but if it’s 50 years before we see any benefit (was that Rees Mogg?) be interesting to see if there is a clamour to go back in
 
I find it impossible to believe that anyone would argue the EU wasn't on the road to being a united superstate when it has its own parliament, anthem, defence policies etc etc.

Its a trading bloc!

Had it focused on that my guess is remain would have wont by an absolute landslide if we had even demanded we be asked yet it couldn't, it had to go along with the dreams of the federalist ruling elite that controls its halls of power.


If it stayed only as a trading block then there would've been no mention of a referendum ever
 
This is true and it’s what will continue to divide us. I just don’t believe the EU superstate scare stories and actually liked my/our identity as an EU nation, and can’t see how the EU was negatively impacting our lives, and never will. Will obviously have to see how it goes but if it’s 50 years before we see any benefit (was that Rees Mogg?) be interesting to see if there is a clamour to go back in
And many of us didn't yet it was being forced down our throats, mostly by our fellow citizens.

I said at the beginning of the referendum that it would mostly come down to the fact some people like us being "European" and others did not. There's no shame in liking either, but remainers made it clear that not wanting to be "european" was "racist" and it really pissed people off.
 
This is true and it’s what will continue to divide us. I just don’t believe the EU superstate scare stories and actually liked my/our identity as an EU nation, and can’t see how the EU was negatively impacting our lives, and never will. Will obviously have to see how it goes but if it’s 50 years before we see any benefit (was that Rees Mogg?) be interesting to see if there is a clamour to go back in
Not sure what you mean by scare stories, but I can tell you I worked with EU ppl for three years on the banking directives. In 8 countries, i worked with bankers, central bankers, regulators, specialist press, management consultants, EU Civil servants etc etc. There was almost unanimity amongst the movers and shakers that the future was a federal European state, with an army, diplomatic corps, foreign policy, a single currency, fiscal union, etc etc.
Some examples: Lisbon treaty made Euro obligatory (except UK and Denmark as per Maastrict).
After the financial crisis, southern countries were in a mess. EU solution was a version of austerity that made our own look like a tea party. Greece, Spain 35% unemployment, 50% youth unemployment etc.
And Why? To save the Euro and the German banks whose lending had fuelled the spending spree and were now hopelessly exposed. Why save German banks? Because the ECB took the view that German bank failure would endanger the project, so throw Greece particularly under a bus. Read Varoufakis on the subject.
I spoke to hundreds of ppl on the project and a Euro super state was the clear agenda. Whether ppl find that scary, is up to them.
Edit PS. With the anti americanism of the French (not to mention anti British feeling) and the willingness of the Germans to bulldoze anybody who got in their way, plus indifference to suffering in the developing world caused by the customs union, they scared the shit out of me.
 
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The reality will be that we have to do what we are told with just about anyone we want to trade with to enable that trade to happen.
Where do you get the certainty that we'll have to do as we're told? Why do consistently portray this country as some
weak, compliant entity, that must be in thrall to an institution in Brussels, or else we'll go down the pan?
the right wing cabal that duped them all will have finally got to sell off the BBC, privatise the NHS, collapse UK workers rights and make the country a tax haven for the rich...
Again, this is simply your own apocalyptic comfort blanket that gets a cuddle as you simply refuse to move on.
We are not privatising the NHS FFS, and collapsing workers rights, which we were the first to implement before we
entered the EU, would mean the immediate collapse of the government that implemented it.
Tax haven for the rich is more hysterical bullshit.
 
Not sure what you mean by scare stories, but I can tell you I worked with EU ppl for three years on the banking directives. In 8 countries, i worked with bankers, central bankers, regulators, specialist press, management consultants, EU Civil servants etc etc. There was almost unanimity amongst the movers and shakers that the future was a federal European state, with an army, diplomatic corps, foreign policy, a single currency, fiscal union, etc etc.
Some examples: Lisbon treaty made Euro obligatory (except UK and Denmark as per Maastrict).
After the financial crisis, southern countries were in a mess. EU solution was a version of austerity that made our own look like a tea party. Greece, Spain 35% unemployment, 50% youth unemployment etc.
And Why? To save the Euro and the German banks whose lending had fuelled the spending spree and were now hopelessly exposed. Why save German banks? Because the ECB took the view that German bank failure would endanger the project, so throw Greece particularly under a bus. Read Varoufakis on the subject.
I spoke to hundreds of ppl on the project and a Euro super state was the clear agenda. Whether ppl find that scary, is up to them.
Edit PS. With the anti americanism of the French (not to mention anti British feeling) and the willingness of the Germans to bulldoze anybody who got in their way, plus indifference to suffering in the developing world caused by the customs union, they scared the shit out of me.
Great post.

"EU will ensure ALL members will adopt the Euro aside from UK and Denmark (as per Maastricht). That is disgraceful."

"Yeah but it doesn't affect the UK, so where's the problem?"

*pikachu face*

I still find that fact amazing and that remainers think it is an acceptible direction the EU is heading in, but because we're not going to be affected by it in the UK, we cannot have any criticisms on the policy. I feel sorry for all current and future members of the EU that are forced to adopt it's currency as an act of EU law. When we warned abut this sort of shit the EU was doing, and the "UK has a veto" remark was routinely trotted out, it ignored the criticism itself. It's almost as if you weren't allowed to criticise the EU unless it's actions affected you directly.
 
Great post.

"EU will ensure ALL members will adopt the Euro aside from UK and Denmark (as per Maastricht). That is disgraceful."

"Yeah but it doesn't affect the UK, so where's the problem?"

*pikachu face*

I still find that fact amazing and that remainers think it is an acceptible direction the EU is heading in, but because we're not going to be affected by it in the UK, we cannot have any criticisms on the policy. I feel sorry for all current and future members of the EU that are forced to adopt it's currency as an act of EU law. When we warned abut this sort of shit the EU was doing, and the "UK has a veto" remark was routinely trotted out, it ignored the criticism itself. It's almost as if you weren't allowed to criticise the EU unless it's actions affected you directly.
The veto has been shown to be nugatory. Cameron vetoed the 10% increase in the EU budget, so the key members simply made an inter governmental agreement, outside the EU, to increase their contributions.
 
Instead we have Ze Germans and the surrender monkeys trying to form a new axis of evil.
French Empire tried it in 1802, ultimately failed.
Fought each other in 1870.
German Empire tried it in 1914, ultimately failed.
Third Reich tried it in 1939, ultimately failed.

Ahh, but how about we try it...together...with diplomacy and economics!?

image.jpg
 
French Empire tried it in 1802, ultimately failed.
Fought each other in 1870.
German Empire tried it in 1914, ultimately failed.
Third Reich tried it in 1939, ultimately failed.

Ahh, but how about we try it...together...with diplomacy and economics!?

image.jpg


Beware the birth of the Forth Reich and its economic colonisation of Europe by stealth.
 
French Empire tried it in 1802, ultimately failed.
Fought each other in 1870.
German Empire tried it in 1914, ultimately failed.
Third Reich tried it in 1939, ultimately failed.

Ahh, but how about we try it...together...with diplomacy and economics!?

image.jpg


And fucks me that's an ugly couple of blokes
 
And many of us didn't yet it was being forced down our throats, mostly by our fellow citizens.

I said at the beginning of the referendum that it would mostly come down to the fact some people like us being "European" and others did not. There's no shame in liking either, but remainers made it clear that not wanting to be "european" was "racist" and it really pissed people off.
How is being in the EU being forced down your throat? Are you forced to eat croissants, goulash and sauerkraut? Are Fish & Chip shops banned. Do you get served Amstel in half litre glasses. Have you been told to drive on the right?
How about telling us just one tangible thing that will change for you on 1 Feb.
 
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