UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[mexico1970]

 

[laserblue]

Always thought he’s a bit self righteous and pompous...Winter. Not your typical football hack.

Henry Winter wrote this in January last year when the dippers were 7 points clear and just before City beat them.

Every supporter should celebrate if Liverpool triumph

Most of the article is hidden behind the Times' paywall but the title of the article tells you everything you need to kow.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

The CAS adjudicators are experienced professionals who have cultivated significant profiles as independent arbiters. They are capable of assessing everything in the round and making sound and sustainable judgements. In their determination, they have to address all matters raised and contested. Therefore if we can provide evidence proving that the funds came from the EC (the fulcrum of the matter), it will be impossible for CAS to argue otherwise in their determination. CAS cannot refute the irrefutable without bringing CAS as an institution into disrepute.

Assuming CAS takes our side, I think that the future for Der Spiegel is very bleak. It's one thing accepting stolen materials but an entirely separate thing to cherry-pick evidence to misrepresent the actions of the club. If we win at CAS, I expect that the club will bring an enormous defamation case against Der Spiegel.

I think the part on CAS is accurate. I don't recall anyone having a grievance with a CAS ruling on legal/balance grounds - it is inevitable that they are more commonly going to reduce/overturn punishments than increase them.

The second part - not so sure. I would think that the emails were out there, Spiegel and a lot of other media dived into them, they reported what they had found and what it suggested. That's generally acceptable behaviour in the media, and all the other media who ran further with it are equally at fault.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Did we leak this to Martin Blackburn?

The huge UEFA cloud hovering over Manchester City has a £369 million Silver Lake lining. The US investment firm paid that sum for a 10% share in the CFG. All cash has been paid up front and gone straight into CFG coffers – rather than Sheikh Mansour’s pocket. [@SunMartinB]

I dont get this, SL investment is not an income for Man City on the books is it?

It doesnt do anything for us in terms of balancing our books in case of CL ban.

Correct. It is the Sun though, and they're writing for the uninformed.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

United, ie the Glazers will no doubt have borrowed the money on terms that preclude the banks calling in the loan, except on default.
In case of Portsmouth, the lender and the chairman were the same person, so no protection for the club.

Not so. There are usually covenants in loan agreements and there's one in theirs I believe. It's something like if they don't qualify for the CL in two consecutive seasons and their earnings figure falls below a certain level then they're on breach. They'll probably be ok if they're in the Thursday night cup bit of they were to miss out on Europe altogether then they could be in danger of breaching their covenants.

 

[give it to gordon]

Yes, interesting. Wish we knew what this was about. Did UEFA, for example, mount a fishing expedition: "Send us all you emails for the last ten years."
Given Leterme's letter refusing to discuss the leaks and the alleged failure to read our evidence, they have a cheek.

you would be mad to send your evidence to UEFA an organisation that leaks like a sieve, it would be all over the press in hours !

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Henry Winter wrote this in January last year when the dippers were 7 points clear and just before City beat them.

Every supporter should celebrate if Liverpool triumph

Most of the article is hidden behind the Times' paywall but the title of the article tells you everything you need to kow.

Winter won't have had anything to do with the headline.

Someone with access may be able to tell if it's a snippet from a longer phrase of Winter's which is therefore out of context.

 

[Fordyboy46]

The CAS adjudicators are experienced professionals who have cultivated significant profiles as independent arbiters. They are capable of assessing everything in the round and making sound and sustainable judgements. In their determination, they have to address all matters raised and contested. Therefore if we can provide evidence proving that the funds came from the EC (the fulcrum of the matter), it will be impossible for CAS to argue otherwise in their determination. CAS cannot refute the irrefutable without bringing CAS as an institution into disrepute.

Assuming CAS takes our side, I think that the future for Der Spiegel is very bleak. It's one thing accepting stolen materials but an entirely separate thing to cherry-pick evidence to misrepresent the actions of the club. If we win at CAS, I expect that the club will bring an enormous defamation case against Der Spiegel.

I think CAS and UEFA are pretty much in bed together, that's my worry here. Might not matter one jot if we've got the right evidence to prove we are clean, I think the decision has already been made.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

welcome mate. @Prestwich_Blue is a fan who (I believe) is also an accountant. He sits on City Matters for Season Ticket Holders so regularly has access to the Club to a pretty high level (COO). I can only speak for myself but his research so far has been spot on. Forensic in nature and presented in a way the ordinary fan can understand. You need to make your own mind up but he is my 'go to' for anything on FFP.

For the sake of accuracy I have an accountancy background but I'm not an accountant.

 

[Damanino]

My big question will CAS be okay with how Uefa opened the new case against us after the Der Spiegel promoting the hacked/stolen emails?

I dont think CAS had any similar case regarding Uefa/FFP earlier that had hacked/stolen data as proof or become a basis of an investigation at least I dont remember one.

That is the very first thing our expensive legal team has to explore imo.

 

[mexico1970]

Watched the interview with Ian Cheeseman and Prestwich blue and the gist of it was that CAS can't overturn the decision but can mediate a lesser punishment, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

My big question will CAS be okay with how Uefa opened the new case against us after the Der Spiegel promoting the hacked/stolen emails?

I dont think CAS had any similar case regarding Uefa/FFP earlier that had hacked/stolen data as proof or become a basis of an investigation at least I dont remember one.

That is the very first thing our expensive legal team has to explore imo.

That'll depend on what UEFA regs are. If it's within UEFA regs (which will obviously be argued if it's not completely clear), then CAS will be okay with it.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Colin, you seem really clued up on all this, in your own humble opinion, what’s the most likely outcome??

Who knows. Wheneveryyou go into court it's head to pedict the outcome. Who thought OJ Simpson would walk free?

I think we have a reasonably strong case on procedural grounds alone but whether that will be enough for City I dont know, as people will see it merely as getting off on a technicality. They may want to go onto the front foot and take the fight further.

 

[Marvin]

Who knows. Wheneveryyou go into court it's head to pedict the outcome. Who thought OJ Simpson would walk free?

I think we have a reasonably strong case on procedural grounds alone but whether that will be enough for City I dont know, as people will see it merely as getting off on a technicality. They may want to go onto the front foot and take the fight further.

Was it wise then not to take Ceferin's deal? The down side is enormous. Tempting to think that City must be very confident CAS will rule in our favour.

 

[Gordyola]

do people actually beleive we will get relegated to the lower tear,is this a serious threat

Between 0% and 0%

 

[blueparrot]

I think CAS and UEFA are pretty much in bed together, that's my worry here. Might not matter one jot if we've got the right evidence to prove we are clean, I think the decision has already been made.

There is no evidence of that at all, in fact I would say there is more evidence to the contrary.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yeah mate. He works for one of the top Sports Law companies in the World and has been used as a Subject Matter Expert by UEFA, FIFA and top European clubs like Barca and Real as a consultant on FFP matters. So pretty much what he says goes. Unlucky for all those lurkers who think he's just another fan speculating.

Anyway, welcome to the board. Your timing is shall we say....ahem...impeccable.

Don't forget I'm also David Conn's ghostwriter.

 

[The blue phantom]

Always thought he’s a bit self righteous and pompous...Winter. Not your typical football hack.

Can you take anyone serious who tweets this, after what this shitstain of a club has done throughout the years and still does.

 

[Lee won pen]

Was it wise then not to take Ceferin's deal? The down side is enormous. Tempting to think that City must be very confident CAS will rule in our favour.

presumably, Ceferin’s deal would be viewed as an admission of guilt. Think this is unacceptable to City if there is irrefutable evidence....

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Between 0% and 0%

We might even get a couple of points in the bag with which to start next season!