UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[MillionMilesAway]

And if it conflicts with law it cannot be applied. Or should we entertain the crowd before the match with the beheading of the chairman of a club found in breach of FFP?

I've not said otherwise - I was replying to a statement that was muddling rules and laws.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

What date is the CAS hearing?

7.45pm on March 17.

 

[blue oli]

Can the thread calm down a little, trying to work out what CAS is going to do about FFP is not a great way to spend our time.

CAS will be ruling on the process taken for Man City to be banned, the evidence that the ban was based on, the fairness of the process and outcome, and a view of what other sanctions have been issued to other clubs for similar cases (ie PSG getting away with it).

What they are not going to due is rule on FFP and it’s legitimacy.

 

[SidJames]

Regardless of the outcome of the CAS appeal it is not all doom and gloom.

Sure the tourists will obviously fuck off back over to the Swamp to watch "Noddy and his Friends" in search of glory.

We can still depend on a loyal fan Base of die hard fans 35,000 + to pull us through stormy waters.

If as rumored Pep was only staying the extra 12 months anyway,Then we can start the rebuilding job the end of this season.He can go to Juventus in search of Champions League glory get to, spend 500,000 000 on the next up coming,Gudogan, Rodri,and Cancelo Whilst will be forced to be a bit more holistic in our approach.It will likely be 2 years until we are at a level to be challenging Europe elite again.

To those who say we will not be able to attract the right players ,absolute bollocks,we brought in Vinny/David SIlva without guarantees,2 City legends.

Every Cloud and all that..

It is not the end of the World.

We will still be there, no matter the weather,no matter the manager.

 

[Citizen Green]

Regardless of the outcome of the CAS appeal it is not all doom and gloom.

Sure the tourists will obviously fuck off back over to the Swamp to watch "Noddy and his Friends" in search of glory.

We can still depend on a loyal fan Base of die hard fans 35,000 + to pull us through stormy waters.

If as rumored Pep was only staying the extra 12 months anyway,Then we can start the rebuilding job the end of this season.He can go to Juventus in search of Champions League glory get to, spend 500,000 000 on the next up coming,Gudogan, Rodri,and Cancelo Whilst will be forced to be a bit more holistic in our approach.It will likely be 2 years until we are at a level to be challenging Europe elite again.

To those who say we will not be able to attract the right players ,absolute bollocks,we brought in Vinny/David SIlva without guarantees,2 City legends.

Every Cloud and all that..

It is not the end of the World.

We will still be there, no matter the weather,no matter the manager.

Not a chance City will take this lying down or be prepared to take 'a more holistic approach' when our ownership has spent 10+ years building to get us to this level as well as laying the foundation to bring in Pep.

The club will take this further if the ban is upheld and will be preparing a contract for Pep and our key players.

I think worst case scenario will be to be a lot better than a 2 year ban in the long run anyway.

 

[nmc]

It's depressing how political sport has become. I am sure football has always been a bit corrupt but nowadays it's happening on a global scale.

i share you view but I guess when you look at the sums involved in CL qualification you can see why a team like Arsenal quickly sideline the fact that they are a mid table side and publicly declare their sense of self entitlement to the millions on offer. Arsenal obviously believe as a so called elite club they can stop teams better than them gaining European qualification in fair competition and introduce a series of draconian measures to make sure they get their hands on the CL loot that they seem to think is their right. Arsenal spent years finishing 4th were rewarded with a pot 1 seeding and pocketed millions in CL revenues. They clearly want that situation to continue and clearly don’t see the relevance of their being up to 8 sides better than them in the league. Money is the route of all evil in society but in football teams have become desperate to protect their privileged positions and will (it seems) stop at nothing to halt any challenge to their privileged position. To illustrate this - look no further than the infamous letter on Arsenal headed paper - that was the classic “price fixing” letter that should have seen all its signatories disciplined but just as in Europe the administrators of the game dance to the tune of the top clubs and have little or no integrity.

 

[SidJames]

Not a chance City will take this lying down or be prepared to take 'a more holistic approach' when our ownership has spent 10+ years building to get us to this level as well as laying the foundation to bring in Pep.

The club will take this further if the ban is upheld and will be preparing a contract for Pep and our key players.

I think worst case scenario will be to be a lot better than a 2 year ban in the long run anyway.

I agree.

I think you are right.We will fight this all the way.Our owners believe we have done no wrong and are being victimized by the Cartel (we are)

My point though is.No matter what happens in the long run we can turn it to our advantage.

I love Pep for the success he has delivered us.

But i am not going to lie.If he is going in 12 months no matter what.Then based on our recent transfer signings, the thought of him spending a huge transfer budget the end of this Season that could make or break us,fills me with dread.

I think it would be best for the Club if we amicably parted ways.Obviously the Champions League Ban will have a bearing on our future plans.

 

[Gordyola]

Purely from memory but I think Sammy Lee said at the time it was his opinion only and not from inside knowledge?

No he got info from a reliable source that led him to believe that the club were confident that they would not be banned

 

[Gordyola]

Are they though? My understanding of Stefan Borson’s excellent piece on the 93:20 podcast was that CAS had previously confirmed that FFP was compatible with EU competition law (see below). A Court may take a different view, but I don’t think we would be wise to bank on it.


From the 93:20 podcast....

“For completeness, it seems to me that City are on less firm ground on the sort of well-trodden arguments UEFA rolled out in CAS 2018/A/5808 AC Milan v. UEFA. UEFA has successfully argued that clubs voluntarily submit to the rules and regulations of UEFA in order to participate in the European club championships. In particular it appears that UEFA will continue to argue that FFP does not breach competition law, EU competition law is not directly applicable to FFP generally and CAS jurisprudence has confirmed that the CL & FFP Regulations are compatible with EU competition law. This is likely to be relatively safe ground for UEFA at CAS – areas that have been tested before and more difficult for CAS to overturn in any meaningful way.”

I doubt we are arguing about FFP’s legal standing at CAS

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Can the thread calm down a little, trying to work out what CAS is going to do about FFP is not a great way to spend our time.

CAS will be ruling on the process taken for Man City to be banned, the evidence that the ban was based on, the fairness of the process and outcome, and a view of what other sanctions have been issued to other clubs for similar cases (ie PSG getting away with it).

What they are not going to due is rule on FFP and it’s legitimacy.

I think they will also look at the spirit of the rules in question and whether we deliberately tried to manipulate them. And yes, I know that’s probably what a great number of other clubs do (vis. Bayern and their “partners”), but we were the ones dumb enough to leave a paper trail for the hackers to pin on us

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I've not said otherwise - I was replying to a statement that was muddling rules and laws.

Yes, I was agreeing with the point you made. Apologies for suggesting otherwise.

 

[Marvin]

I agree.

I think you are right.We will fight this all the way.Our owners believe we have done no wrong and are being victimized by the Cartel (we are)

My point though is.No matter what happens in the long run we can turn it to our advantage.

I love Pep for the success he has delivered us.

But i am not going to lie.If he is going in 12 months no matter what.Then based on our recent transfer signings, the thought of him spending a huge transfer budget the end of this Season that could make or break us,fills me with dread.

I think it would be best for the Club if we amicably parted ways.Obviously the Champions League Ban will have a bearing on our future plans.

You'll have to do better than that rag.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Regardless of the outcome of the CAS appeal it is not all doom and gloom.

Sure the tourists will obviously fuck off back over to the Swamp to watch "Noddy and his Friends" in search of glory.

We can still depend on a loyal fan Base of die hard fans 35,000 + to pull us through stormy waters.

If as rumored Pep was only staying the extra 12 months anyway,Then we can start the rebuilding job the end of this season.He can go to Juventus in search of Champions League glory get to, spend 500,000 000 on the next up coming,Gudogan, Rodri,and Cancelo Whilst will be forced to be a bit more holistic in our approach.It will likely be 2 years until we are at a level to be challenging Europe elite again.

To those who say we will not be able to attract the right players ,absolute bollocks,we brought in Vinny/David SIlva without guarantees,2 City legends.

Every Cloud and all that..

It is not the end of the World.

We will still be there, no matter the weather,no matter the manager.

Worth pointing out that Vinny and Zabaleta duly excepted, we bought in our key men (Dave, Sergio, Ya Ya, Tevez, plus Lescott, Mario, Kolarov etc) prior to the FFP shutters coming down, by paying big fees and big wages. Were we to now rebuild, we would have to do so with a greatly reduced budget and under the FFP glass ceiling.
As you say, a 2 year ban is not the end of the world. Nobody died. If it isn’t overturned however, it is nonetheless pretty disastrous in the grand scheme of things, not least because it lays us open to potential claims from competitors and also because it buys the the G14 and their UEFA stooges time to dream up longer term ways of fucking us. They want us out of the equation permanently. Never forget that

 

[nmc]

I agree.

I think you are right.We will fight this all the way.Our owners believe we have done no wrong and are being victimized by the Cartel (we are)

My point though is.No matter what happens in the long run we can turn it to our advantage.

I love Pep for the success he has delivered us.

But i am not going to lie.If he is going in 12 months no matter what.Then based on our recent transfer signings, the thought of him spending a huge transfer budget the end of this Season that could make or break us,fills me with dread.

I think it would be best for the Club if we amicably parted ways.Obviously the Champions League Ban will have a bearing on our future plans.

I hope the club at the highest levels know Peps plans and intentions. I think you are right - no one including Pep will want next year to be a limbo / transition season. I think Pep needs to commit (if only in private) to completing another 3 years and then we can amend and rebuild this squad to get back to the levels we saw last year and the year before. Up until recently I thought we only needed minor surgery but recent performances suggest there a few fundamentals wrong with this squad that need addressing and a few players seem like they are washed up by the intensity of working with Pep and may need to seek pastures new. Either way I think it’ll be a traumatic summer.

 

[MFURNELL]

Ok guys, apologies if I’ve missed the answer already in this incredibly long thread. Could UEFA just say you know what, you can no longer play in our competitions full stop. I know it’s a take your ball home unlikely scenario but could they do it?

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I think they will also look at the spirit of the rules in question and whether we deliberately tried to manipulate them. And yes, I know that’s probably what a great number of other clubs do (vis. Bayern and their “partners”), but we were the ones dumb enough to leave a paper trail for the hackers to pin on us

I suspect one of the poits City may make is that Bayern, Juventus and PSG don't even bother trying to conceal the paper trail because they know FFP is intentionally aimed solely at City. CAS may rule that the treatment meted out to City is neither fair nor equitable but on the other hand it could argue that it is up to UEFA to investigate other cases and take the appropriate action! In any event I don't think CAS will be the end of the matter because City may feel that while FFP is in place in any shape or form the club will have no peace.

 

[SilverFox2]

I think they will also look at the spirit of the rules in question and whether we deliberately tried to manipulate them. And yes, I know that’s probably what a great number of other clubs do (vis. Bayern and their “partners”), but we were the ones dumb enough to leave a paper trail for the hackers to pin on us

Should they use the "spirit of the rules" angle they may enjoy explaining why it was introduced in the first place, where the use of debt was somehow not included.

 

[nmc]

I suspect one of the poits City may make is that Bayern, Juventus and PSG don't even bother trying to conceal the paper trail because they know FFP is intentionally aimed solely at City. CAS may rule that the treatment meted out to City is neither fair nor equitable but on the other hand it could argue that it is up to UEFA to investigate other cases and take the appropriate action! In any event I don't think CAS will be the end of the matter because City may feel that while FFP is in place in any shape or form the club will have no peace.

You make a good point about the wholly inconsistent application of the rules. I’d guess under this type of scenario CAS would likely refer our case back to UEFA and ask them to re look at it and either drop it or apply the FFP rules to Juve and Bayern in a consistent manner. CAS like the rest of us know how that would end.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Should they use the "spirit of the rules" angle they may enjoy explaining why it was introduced in the first place, where the use of debt was somehow not included.

Yes good luck with the debt bit.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Regardless of the outcome of the CAS appeal it is not all doom and gloom.

Sure the tourists will obviously fuck off back over to the Swamp to watch "Noddy and his Friends" in search of glory.

We can still depend on a loyal fan Base of die hard fans 35,000 + to pull us through stormy waters.

If as rumored Pep was only staying the extra 12 months anyway,Then we can start the rebuilding job the end of this season.He can go to Juventus in search of Champions League glory get to, spend 500,000 000 on the next up coming,Gudogan, Rodri,and Cancelo Whilst will be forced to be a bit more holistic in our approach.It will likely be 2 years until we are at a level to be challenging Europe elite again.

To those who say we will not be able to attract the right players ,absolute bollocks,we brought in Vinny/David SIlva without guarantees,2 City legends.

Every Cloud and all that..

It is not the end of the World.

We will still be there, no matter the weather,no matter the manager.

More Laren.James than Sid ? She plays for the rags btw,