COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[lancs blue]

I wonder how the 5 million asthmatics in this country will get on ?

I'll keep you posted, as of now I'm fine thanks. ;-)

 

[Ban-jani]

great post and more should actually read it.



you are. When other posters keep bringing up there are more than just our experts, you and a few others keep suggesting they think they know more than the experts. That’s not what is happening at all. They’re rightly making the point that they don’t trust what they’re being told by Boris.



No one is suggesting doing what China did. South Korea on the other hand...



What’s the point in employing a manager when half of them will choose the wrong tactics for any given match, any given weekend.

Experts can get things wrong. When ours are very much the outlier in world precautions, does that not make you stop and think “hmmm, are we going the right way on this?”

I don’t know how many times I need to repeat this, I’m not saying our experts are better, can you please keep this in mind until you post next? I’m saying the decision ours has made is specific to the UK’s situation.

What part of that can’t you comprehend?

Of course but you don’t hire Pep Guardiola and slag him off before his very first match starts based on team selection do you? Unless you’re a total moron, in which you’re very vocal against people who do that.

We won’t know until the strategy has failed until this is over and for this moment in time, I feel I have no choice but to give the experts in charge the benefit of doubt.

 

[SWP's back]

Granted you took more interest when this was at the back of people’s minds but that doesn’t necessarily mean you know more now.

Of course it does. When people read and take in information, they acquire knowledge. The things I’ve stated in this thread aren’t based on wild theories pulled from my arse.

There are still posters on this thread playing this down as a bit of flu who still haven’t bothered to read anything on the subject.

Nobody in the world knows what the next 6 months in China will look like nor the UK.

That’s very true. But I’d prefer we were trying to reduce the spread and lower the rate of infection, a la South Korea to try and push back the peak and hope that we get a vaccine rather than simply accepting 50-70% of the population will get it and hope my loved ones aren’t in the 400-500,000 that die whilst we acquire herd immunity.

 

[SWP's back]

Jump forward 7 or 8 weeks and people will look back and realise how naive they are right now, this is going to be shocking.

Yep but when that’s pointed out it will he met with “now is not the time for I told you so’s”

 

[SWP's back]

Another expert

!

 

[Ban-jani]

Of course it does. When people read and take in information, they acquire knowledge. The things I’ve stated in this thread aren’t based on wild theories pulled from my arse.

There are still posters on this thread playing this down as a bit of flu who still haven’t bothered to read anything on the subject.






That’s very true. But I’d prefer we were trying to reduce the spread and lower the rate of infection, a la South Korea to try and push back the peak and hope that we get a vaccine rather than simply accepting 50-70% of the population will get it and hope my loved ones aren’t in the 400-500,000 that die whilst we acquire herd immunity.

I’m in the camp of saying this is fucking very bad, not a bit of flu and I’ve argued with my own mother who thinks this is blown well out of proportion.

I know you weren’t accusing me of that but it needs to be said.

Is it not possible you’re writing off our experts over countries with a different social make up and is it not possible that we’re both wrong?

At this moment in time I’m trusting the team the government have hired and giving them the benefit of doubt but if it’s proved wrong, I’ll be on here to condemn the decision. I think it is incredibly tough though for them.

 

[hilts]

On the contrary I’m not at all. I’m just following the advice and believing these people who are hired to do this know what they’re talking about and my entire point is their decision is based on our specific situation in this country.

Im not even saying they’re correct, I’m saying it made sense to me and what’s the point in ignoring the very people hired to make these decisions, over one bloke in the Guardian?

Going round in circles but your general argument is you are happy to accept some British scientists and you’re not sure if they are even correct. I don’t think anyone is suggesting the extreme China like measures but a general apathetic let it spread approach will send the fatality rate up as medical equipment will not be available for all as the spread with this method will be much quicker. Cancel everything with large people, prevent where possible non workers, elderly and those with health issues from interacting with others. There will still be plenty of ‘healthy people’ getting it for your herd immunity.

Less people will die needlessly. I find deciding which two people in front of you lives abhorrent. There will be a number of cases where the nhs no longer copes but your method means we get their quicker. A vaccine will hopefully come let’s not let thousands of people needlessly die because slowing it down was just to much effort and too costly.

 

[mackenzie]

Jump forward 7 or 8 weeks and people will look back and realise how naive they are right now, this is going to be shocking.

You don't get a Prime Minister come on the TV saying we need to prepare to lose loved ones if it is being blown out of proportion.

When you understand that the leader of a Nation will invariably try to minimise panic and play things down then yes, that was extremely ominous.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I will say one thing, this thread has shown a few people in a different light

Panic does that I suppose

You want some?

 

[Ban-jani]

Going round in circles but your general argument is you are happy to accept some British scientists and you’re not sure if they are even correct. I don’t think anyone is suggesting the extreme China like measures but a general apathetic let it spread approach will send the fatality rate up as medical equipment will not be available for all as the spread with this method will be much quicker. Cancel everything with large people, prevent where possible non workers, elderly and those with health issues from interacting with others. There will still be plenty of ‘healthy people’ getting it for your herd immunity.

Less people will die needlessly though I find deciding which two people in front of you lives abhorrent. There will be a number of cases where the nhs no longer copes but your method means we get their quicker. A vaccine will hopefully come let’s not let thousands of people needlessly die because slowing it down was just to much effort and too costly.

My argument is to give those hired the benefit of doubt with a plan that’s long term, rather than short term.

Nothing more or less.

You hire these people to make these decisions so why must at least give them the chance.

 

[mexico1970]

It’s an insult to this forum that @dave_blue12 keeps sharing this shite.

It’s also out of order for him to talk about how asthmatics are fucked when he’s not qualified to do so.

What's worrying is that some people are still trying to use this epidemic as political collateral, it's good that people are questioning the govts position but some of the comments are beyond the pale.

Quoting complete crackpots as "Proof" is disingenuous and dangerous.

 

[cibaman]

Kids getting the virus in some form is quite important and it is how vaccinations generally work. Vaccinations are given to kids so that they are immune for life and won't become ill in the future when they might be more vulnerable.

There are the old stories of chicken pox parties where if one kid got it you would take your kids round to get them exposed and take the mild hit so they are immune for life.

I know this isn't quite the same but that is basically how you protect people in the long term. Otherwise, it's just a waiting game and just a matter of time because the virus is too infectious, too spread and also too global to be stopped.

China have stopped it but that is because everyone is locked in their houses. When that lockdown is lifted what is to stop it from just starting again? All they have done is delayed the spread so that healthcare organisations can gear up for round 2.

The delay phase here is to slowly build that immunity and to implement measures to stop the 'wrong' people getting it. That means you don't avoid exposure but you take measures to stop yourself from spreading it to people who are at the most risk.

Can’t say I’ve seen many serious measures being taken to stop the wrong people getting it. Stopping the schools from closing reduces the risks to grandparents from looking after the grandchildren. But in reality the grandparents who would do this would be the relatively healthy ones, like myself, not those aged 80+ with health conditions. What other measures are they implementing?

 

[Gabriel]

Do have to wonder what practical measures have already been planned for now so that they are in place in the coming days, let alone three/four weeks.

hotels made over to help hospital overflow
cruise ships returned to ports to provide further beds
military helicopters back to help ferry people
schooling/home care provision for children of health workers
emergency mortuary provision
catering companies supplying into hospitals

These all sounded radical a few weeks ago. Not sure anything sounds radical enough now.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I don’t know how many times I need to repeat this, I’m not saying our experts are better, can you please keep this in mind until you post next? I’m saying the decision ours has made is specific to the UK’s situation.

What part of that can’t you comprehend?

Of course but you don’t hire Pep Guardiola and slag him off before his very first match starts based on team selection do you? Unless you’re a total moron, in which you’re very vocal against people who do that.

We won’t know until the strategy has failed until this is over and for this moment in time, I feel I have no choice but to give the experts in charge the benefit of doubt.

I think that's the problem, the stakes are very high on this decision because we are not talking about wrong fiscal policies effecting the future prosperity of the nation or getting the right/wrong manager on board for a team determining it's final league position - with lives at stake, you have to be quite brave to go against the majority of expert opinion (Hunt looks very uneasy about this course of action) but that in it's own right is not to say that advice proves to be ultimately wrong. We are running multiple policies in the same geographical continental space which is not a good start

 

[Ban-jani]

What's worrying is that some people are still trying to use this epidemic as political collateral, it's good that people are questioning the govts position but some of the comments are beyond the pale.

Quoting complete crackpots as "Proof" is disingenuous and dangerous.

It’s pathetic and immoral in my opinion.

I’m not saying everyone criticising falls in this bracket but there’s a few names who are doing it for political reasons and they should be ashamed.

 

[Ban-jani]

I think that's the problem, the stakes are very high on this decision because we are not talking about wrong fiscal policies effecting the future prosperity of the nation or getting the right/wrong manager on board for a team determining it's final league position - with lives at stake, you have to be quite brave to go against the majority of expert opinion (Hunt looks very uneasy about this course of action) but that in it's own right is not to say that advice proves to be ultimately wrong. We are running multiple policies in the same geographical continental space which is not a good start

I don’t disagree but as I keep repeating, for a normal joe like me I have to give those experts who have been hired for this the chance to make the decision.

I guarantee they’d be lots of criticism whichever way they played this as I genuinely think there’s negatives whichever direction we take.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I will say one thing, this thread has shown a few people in a different light

Panic does that I suppose

I see no surprises, it's the same people doing the same stuff. Even a topic this serious is polarised.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I don’t disagree but as I keep repeating, for a normal joe like me I have to give those experts who have been hired for this the chance to make the decision.

I guarantee they’d be lots of criticism whichever way they played this as I genuinely think there’s negatives whichever direction we take.

Maybe the republic/N.Ireland situation will be the first acid test of the respective policies as it has the making of a scientific/political lab test to me - either way no winners who ever shows the better numbers

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I don’t know how many times I need to repeat this, I’m not saying our experts are better, can you please keep this in mind until you post next? I’m saying the decision ours has made is specific to the UK’s situation.

What part of that can’t you comprehend?

Of course but you don’t hire Pep Guardiola and slag him off before his very first match starts based on team selection do you? Unless you’re a total moron, in which you’re very vocal against people who do that.

We won’t know until the strategy has failed until this is over and for this moment in time, I feel I have no choice but to give the experts in charge the benefit of doubt.

The conflicting advice from experts and strategy of herd immunity in the UK, is causing problems in the Northern Ireland Assembly.
Schools, Universities etc have closed down south and the GAA suspended all games north and south.
Whoever is right or wrong in their approach I would say the actual Collective Action has to be bought into by the community.
It has been generally accepted down south that this is the correct action and we don't even have a government. There is cross party approval of the measures being taken.
The problem with Britain as with Brexit, is that although Boris has his 80 seat majority, it still seems evident that practically half the country don't trust him and that goes for the reasons behind the strategy he is taking now.
For it to collectively work their has to be acceptance that it's right, compliance and acceptance of the outcome.

Regarding the Island of Ireland, it is not helpful to have one set of actions in one jurisdiction up north and another down south.

 

[Phil1]

But it makes his reason for saying it infinitely more questionable.

In fairness every spokesperson I’ve heard on the subject seems to have their own reasons for saying what they are. Scientists. Medical professionals and world leaders are all going off what evidence they have at the moment. As this is such a fast flowing event there’s every chance that different advice will be given at different times in the future.
I said earlier that the only thing we can do as individuals is to take preventive measures to the best of your circumstances. We’re only scratching the surface right now. The worse is yet to hit us.