Democrat US Presidential Nominations

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So when do we think Sanders will officially drop out then gang?

Does he try and continue and get Biden to move slightly more to the left before he bids farewell?
 
@Bigga @SWP's back

I have tidied up the thread from the point that your discussion began to turn in to mostly personal abuse and dispute that hijacked the thread. Please take any further discussion to PMs.

Cheers,

Seb
 
SebastianBlue said:
@Bigga @SWP's back

I have tidied up the thread from the point that your discussion began to turn in to mostly personal abuse and dispute that hijacked the thread. Please take any further discussion to PMs.

Cheers,

Seb
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Appreciated, but not apologising for personal abuse I didn't initiate.

Happens all the time with this guy.

I have no problem with tough or passionate debate, otherwise.
 
SWP's back said:
On fire.
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He would have. The theory is simple. There are Democrats and progressives. Democrats just want rid of Donald. Progressives want their man. I expected about 30-50% of Bernie'voters to sit out the general.

I've been to their rallies. In New York and Massachusetts. In general a significant portion of them lean towards Bigga's positiion. Don't let the Democratic majority here fool you. Bernites are not impressed.

I'm sure this virus might scare them straight. But Trump would have beat Biden silly without this.
 
Gaudion M said:
Gabbard pulls out and endorses Biden. Is she just punking Bernie?
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She is saying let's coalesce. The voters have chosen Biden. Which is what she was always going to do and claimed she would.

But all along, the Hillary/Neoliberal faction of the party called her a Russian plant. Floated she was going to run as an independent, bla bla bla. And yet as usual the Democratic drone base bought it.

Bunch of dummies
 
Dax777 said:
He would have. The theory is simple. There are Democrats and progressives. Democrats just want rid of Donald. Progressives want their man. I expected about 30-50% of Bernie'voters to sit out the general.

I've been to their rallies. In New York and Massachusetts. In general a significant portion of them lean towards Bigga's positiion. Don't let the Democratic majority here fool you. Bernites are not impressed.

I'm sure this virus might scare them straight. But Trump would have beat Biden silly without this.
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I have seen no numeric proof for your last assertion about Trump beating Biden silly anywhere but am happy to look at some if you have it.

Per your other comment, 75% of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in 2016. 12% voted for Trump. 8% voted for another candidate. 5% didn't vote.

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

This would suggest your expectation of 30-50% sitting out in 2020 has no numeric foundation. The article itself makes a case that Sanders supporters behavior cost Clinton the election, but that's only part of the argument. I surmise lack of turnout generally (among voters of any stripe, but especially Democrats) played a bigger role. I suspect many failed to vote because thought the result was foregone conclusion or because they liked neither candidate.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
I have seen no numeric proof for your last assertion about Trump beating Biden silly anywhere but am happy to look at some if you have it.

Per your other comment, 75% of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in 2016. 12% voted for Trump. 8% voted for another candidate. 5% didn't vote.

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

This would suggest your expectation of 30-50% sitting out in 2020 has no numeric foundation.
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So 25% sat out based on your findings ( 12% went with Trump (worse than sitting out) 8% a protest vote and 5% didn't bother. I'd expect an additional 5 to 10%.

By sitting out, I mean they won't go for Biden. Bigga is not an anomaly. Bernie supporters generally view the Centrist as part of the opposition.

Mind you the total number might have been smaller as Bernie has lost some support from 2016. But the % I believe would be more.

Doesn't matter now as the outcome is totally Corona and Economy dependent.
 
Dax777 said:
So 25% sat out based on your findings ( 12% went with Trump (worse than sitting out) 8% a protest vote and 5% didn't bother. I'd expect an additional 5 to 10%.

By sitting out, I mean they won't go for Biden. Bigga is not an anomaly. Bernie supporters generally view the Centrist as part of the opposition.

Mind you the total number might have been smaller as Bernie has lost some support from 2016. But the % I believe would be more.

Doesn't matter now as the outcome is totally Corona and Economy dependent.
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Fair enough on your definition of "sit out" -- you are right, that is a better way to look at it. I would suggest fewer will do so because (1) Biden is somewhat more innocuous/likeable than Hillary in the eyes of some and (2) Trump was he devil we "didn't know" last time round -- now he is fully known (and worse than many expected). Also the economy/virus issues will suck the air out of the room for any putatively viable third party candidates. And as you indicate, Sanders has lost some support too. As you know I see relatively little emotional difference between red hats and blue hats and I don't view Bigga as an anomaly although he is more of one than I think either he or you think. I suspect if the Sanders vote was 25% concentrated in any non-Clinton alternatives last time, it will be perhaps 10-15% non-Biden this time.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Fair enough on your definition of "sit out" -- you are right, that is a better way to look at it. I would suggest fewer will do so because (1) Biden is somewhat more innocuous/likeable than Hillary in the eyes of some and (2) Trump was he devil we "didn't know" last time round -- now he is fully known (and worse than many expected). Also the economy/virus issues will suck the air out of the room for any putatively viable third party candidates. And as you indicate, Sanders has lost some support too. As you know I see relatively little emotional difference between red hats and blue hats and I don't view Bigga as an anomaly although he is more of one than I think either he or you think. I suspect if the Sanders vote was 25% concentrated in any non-Clinton alternatives last time, it will be perhaps 10-15% non-Biden this time.
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There will always be fringe views and those that do not warm to politicians who seek a broad appeal. But playing to those voters will always be a negative sum as the majority will always lean toward the center. The world of politics is itself an anomaly as to be quite frank the vast majority do not care or pay attention for the majority of time, in those times those that are highly engaged tend to have the most divserse views - it is hard to be a crusader for the middle ground and few communists or right wing nutters are part time in there political activism. So outside of the big elections the extremes can appear to be doing well. But what counts is who has read the middle ground and who has the message to engage their voters inclusive of the ones who potentially cant be arsed to vote. In that light Bernie was never a good choice, divisive among the moderates he was not well placed to inspire big turnout. Biden is a safe pair of hands, shame he isnt 20 years younger but as of right now, external factors will have the biggest influence and all he needs to do is stay healthy and not be Trump.
 
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Gaudion M said:
There will always be fringe views and those that do not warm to politicians who seek a braod appeal. But playing to those voters will always be a negative some as the majority will always hold toaward the center. The world of politics is itself an anomaly as to be quite frank the vast majority do not care or pay attention for the majority of time, in those times those that are highly engaged tend to have the most divserse views - it is hard to be a crusader for the middle ground and view communists or right wing nutters are part time in there political activism. So outside of the big elections the extremes can appear to be doing well. But what counts is who has read the middle ground and who has the message to engage their voters inclusive of the one who potentially cant be arsed. In that light Bernie was never a good choice, divisive among the moderates he was not well placed to inspire big turnout. Biden is a safe pair of hands, shame he isnt 20 years younger but as of right now, external factors will have the biggest influence and all he needs to do is stay healthy and not be Trump.
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Agree with all of this. I've said often that the democratization of the bully pulpit through technology has allowed fringe views to flourish and get more oxygen than they have historically. And your point on the middle ground is why I think Biden is doing so well -- the average American, if not most Americans, just want a President they can ignore. I think that's usually true -- in this case, it's definitely true.
 
Gaudion M said:
There will always be fringe views and those that do not warm to politicians who seek a broad appeal. But playing to those voters will always be a negative sum as the majority will always lean toward the center. The world of politics is itself an anomaly as to be quite frank the vast majority do not care or pay attention for the majority of time, in those times those that are highly engaged tend to have the most divserse views - it is hard to be a crusader for the middle ground and few communists or right wing nutters are part time in there political activism. So outside of the big elections the extremes can appear to be doing well. But what counts is who has read the middle ground and who has the message to engage their voters inclusive of the ones who potentially cant be arsed to vote. In that light Bernie was never a good choice, divisive among the moderates he was not well placed to inspire big turnout. Biden is a safe pair of hands, shame he isnt 20 years younger but as of right now, external factors will have the biggest influence and all he needs to do is stay healthy and not be Trump.
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So, let me ask you a civil question or two that the majority seem to be frothed mouths animals about!

Why is acceptable to vote in an apparent 'centrist' (he's not, he's right wing lite) who's happy to be proud of his association with a racist like Strom Thurman (a bloke that #45 would have been pillared for), make up shit about his position (take social security and the Iraq War, another thing #45 has been pillared for) and also lies about the shit that happened to him (South Africa visit and civil right marches).

At this point, #45 has moved to the left of the right winged Dems, handing out 'socialism' like Easter eggs (I remember a poster on here screaming that Americans would never accept socialism (I won't name names to spare blushes, my 3 lettered friend!)!)

So, if Biden is seen as a 'lovable' foot-in-mouth disease kind of guy, what's the difference between him and the pres apart from rhetoric and language?

Both are liars, both have emitted racial undertones whether as a joke or not, both have rejected and embraced 'socialism', both are far from whom they claim they are and both are slightly different sides to the same coin. It's like everyone has forgotten how he used to be known as "Creepy Joe" in the MSM!

Anyway, I think it's going to interesting whom Biden picks as his VP as I believe he's led the drop outs to think they have a shot at that position.
 
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