COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[Ban-jani]

Can’t argue with the fact that those types of comments are definitely racist in tone and also unhelpful.

A boycott isn’t going to help anyone but some pressure needs to be brought to bear on China following this, both in terms of carrot and stick, if we are to ensure this issue is tackled moving forward.

Good to luck to anyone who thinks they can boycott China. They’d likely have to get rid of every piece of technology in their house.

I agree though, there needs to be something.

 

[BlueAnorak]

It would be interesting, if we could, map every single jump from human to human and visualize it. That horse race meeting the other week seems more stupid by the day.

Follow the RNA trail...
https://nextstrain.org/ncov

 

[urban genie]

Don't need to get rid of what you have, just choose carefully next time. Plenty of Korean or Taiwanese or European options. May even encourage some UK manufacturing in the future.

And stop watching 13.79% of city games

 

[meltonblue]

They did from the date it was official it was H2H. If you take it from December, when they definitely knew, they have been one of the slowest.

What’s annoyed me the most is allowing the flights to come in unchecked.

We’ll have to disagree on “they definitely knew” in December, at that time they still didn’t know if it was from people coming into contact with contaminated meat rather than having to be at the market. Like I said earlier, they informed the WHO when there were still less than 40 cases.

Bear in mind though you’re saying China should have locked down or checked flights when there was less than 40 cases of a new virus. We still aren’t checking flights in and allowed travel throughout the pandemic spreading worldwide. They went straight into lockdown not fully knowing the rate of infection. We didn’t, even knowing it was seemingly highly contagious. Everything you’re arguing about China's slow response initially to it, we were far more armed with what was likely to happen and didn’t either, yet had far more evidence to go off.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I’m sure your boycott didn’t disadvantage the entirely innocent wine producers who may well have shared you view, but instead cut right to the heart of government and influenced all future French atomic policy. Thank you for helping to make the world a safer place.

You’re welcome.
De rien.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Part of the problem we’ve had in the west is we haven’t had to deal with a pandemic for such a long time. Some of those countries, they’d be on high alert right from the beginning due to (recent) past experience. That’s why I’m even more frustrated by the reaction post lockdown (as in, in February). As soon as China went into total lockdown, that was the full alarm bell and yet we still all waited a month.

That I agree with.
But a huge chuck of the problem is that we believed China. They lied. For one, the infection rate is higher than China predicted.
But the BBC and others decided that wearing masks was not important. Sadly, it is vital on public transport as it reduces the aerosol spread range of the wearer. This is clear to all in the far east who have experienced bird flue, SARS, and swine fever.

 

[BlueAnorak]

They would tell us ....right?
:)

They do use Medical Ozone to treat viral pneumonia as a starter of course (Oxygen with 0.5ppm Ozone) and have done since the 1950s. They use Ozone Therapy to boost the imune system on patients whose immune system is not in overdrive. They also have lots of Ventilators and a stock of antivirals they bulk bought at the start of February.
Did I mention testing too?
It will all come out in the wash of analysis by the Retrospectoscope

 

[Vic]

@Vic

I know you didn’t read my Tweets I shared so here’s part of one that had an article from the Financial Times

So really this boils down to the Taiwanese government saying (three months on) that they warned China/WHO about human to human transmission.

You read "Taiwan wrote to WHO on 31st December about human-to-human spread". I read "Speaking to reporters in Taipei, the island’s Centres for Disease Control chief Chou Jih-haw said that it written to the WHO and China as early as Dec. 31, asking for information about the newly uncovered virus outbreak in China’s Wuhan city, including whether there was human-to-human transmission." https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-h...-questions-at-start-of-outbreak-idUKKBN21B160

You read suppression of knowledge, I read a request for information. Taiwan did not know.

“We asked them whether there’s a possibility of human-to-human transmission. We indeed asked them and reminded them of the matter,” Chou said.

His organisation did not mention this in its first press release on 6 January - so does that mean Taiwan was suppressing its own knowledge?
https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/Dbg1J9leIDoxseqTHMiaxQ?typeid=158

 

[meltonblue]

That I agree with.
But a huge chuck of the problem is that we believed China. They lied. For one, the infection rate is higher than China predicted.
But the BBC and others decided that wearing masks was not important. Sadly, it is vital on public transport as it reduces the aerosol spread range of the wearer. This is clear to all in the far east who have experienced bird flue, SARS, and swine fever.

The infection rate, there’s now more than five strains of it. Im not sure we know what that’s mutated properly into in terms of infection rate though as no one outside of a couple of countries are testing everyone.

 

[Vic]

They knew China would lie and were not prepared to take the chance. They were right!
After SARS they instituted a plan to fight the next Chinese virus. It has worked. It even also looks like they are beating the infections that have subsequently come from Europe and the US. Appropriate Articles:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/16/taiwan-china-fear-coronavirus-success/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...navirus-despite-diplomatic-isolation-by-china
https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/soc...aiwan-repeat-its-success-controlling-covid-19

NOTE THAT TAIWAN WAS MONITORING CHINESE FLIGHT PASSENGERS FROM THE 17TH DECEMBER AS SOON AS INFORMATION LEAKED OUT FROM CHINA.

CAN YOU CITE A SOURCE FOR THAT?

...Other than that they'd had "onboard quarantine inspections" (checking for fever) on flights from most places since April because of worries about influenza.

 

[BlueAnorak]

CAN YOU CITE A SOURCE FOR THAT?

...Other than that they'd had "onboard quarantine inspections" (checking for fever) on flights from most places since April because of worries about influenza.

The 3rd article down.

Taiwan first learned of the then-unidentified severe respiratory disease in Wuhan on December 17, Chen said. The island’s Centres for Disease Control contacted mainland authorities and the World Health Organisation about the possibility of human-to-human transmission on December 31, he said.

It goes on to say they introduced temperature checks at airports immediately on flights from Wuhan.

I can can dig up other interviews with Mr Chen if you want. There are plenty of them.

 

[BlueAnorak]

UK testing delayed as equipment sourced from Luxembourg has viral traces on it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-coronavirus-testing-hindered-key-components/

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Why should I let it go?

The government of the 2nd most powerful country on earth is covering up epidemics and tens of thousands of deaths. How can you let it go?

I’m certainly not going to when people are acting as apologists for them.

We all get that there needs to be questions asked of China and their government as regarding these wet markets. It’s terrible and needs addressing.

What is weird, is that you and a few other prominent posters are hammering loads of threads demanding China needing to be taken to account.

I don’t disagree. However, we’ve created this culture about having to be outraged about something and that having to be the main agenda.

it isn’t at the moment. China could shut all wet markets forever. China could nuke themselves and kill every single one of them and it not matter to the predicament we are in.

Ask yourself. As you take your final breaths, should you be unlucky enough to be struck down with this virus, will you still be berating the Chinese government or apologising to the nurse for potentially giving her the virus because our government haven’t sent them PPE, or that it was out of date and useless.

 

[Vic]

The 3rd article down.

It goes on to say they introduced temperature checks at airports immediately on flights from Wuhan.

I can can dig up other interviews with Mr Chen if you want. There are plenty of them.

Feel free. But the source article doesn't say what you said.

"Taiwan first learned of the then-unidentified severe respiratory disease in Wuhan on December 17, Chen said. The island’s Centres for Disease Control contacted mainland authorities and the World Health Organisation about the possibility of human-to-human transmission on December 31, he said.

"But when neither group responded helpfully, the island started to require inbound passengers and crew members from Wuhan flights to undergo health checks, Chen said."

So not "immediately" on December 17...

 

[johnmc]

Stupid point but we lost an hour over the weekend. At the current rate that’s maybe 7 or 8 deaths that will filter through to another day

 

[SWP's back]

if those figures are correct then the infection mortality rate is 0.077.

Which has to be bollocks as why would the governments react like this if it’s less lethal than normal Flu?

 

[mcfc1632]

First of all I’m inside all day every day, who I post about on here makes zero difference in the outside world and the response to this disease. All we’re doing is chatting about it. So playing the blame game or not makes little difference. I’d hope we’re all obeying the advice and rules and that’s all we can do.

The pushback is purely down to an anti-western, pro-east approach some of the modern left has nailed its flag to. The same poster I’m arguing with who’s refusing to even acknowledge any wrong doing of the country in which this spread from, is running up records for anti-UK government posts.

Back to the actual topic. Taiwan obviously knew it was transmissible of H2H as they stopped travel from China and considering their location, they’ve had the greatest response to this out of everyone.

They knew very early the dangers and yet it escaped the Chinese Government and WHO? Not a chance mate, not a chance.

Japan are arguing the WHO and China are allies and involved together. I’m absolutely certain China lied, I’m reasonably confident the WHO protected them.

China did enforce a lockdown after the first published death, again I’m not having their figures, but this was already far too late and was spread to thousands of people. They enforced the lockdown when they had no choice as they’d lost control.

It’s important to tell the truth with your figures and nobody, not even their own poor citizens, believe a word they’re saying. Other countries may have thought they’d beat it and have copied their strategy, that’s how important it is.

The UK government does deserve criticism, the PPE, testing and the fact people were walking through our airports without any further regulations was a disgrace.

But they’re not even half as culpable as China is.

Re your point:

"The same poster I’m arguing with who’s refusing to even acknowledge any wrong doing of the country in which this spread from, is running up records for anti-UK government posts."

I would make 2 comments:

1. It seems important to some of the hard(er) left posters that the opportunity should not be missed to use this disaster to bash the UK government. You raising questions for discussion about its origin and where blame could/should lie - is an unwelcome distraction for them.

I would think that there should be space for appropriate challenge, criticism and indeed (shock horror) praise of the government actions and responses - but also space to discuss the origins of this disease and what should be done following recovery. There should not be a close down of such discussion just to fuel the whims of the government haters.

2. There needs to be care taken not to stray into the political areas which is really stuff for the other thread.

I had expected to come onto this thread and read quite a few views on the news that was emerging yesterday about the production of ventilators and how this could be positive for the UK.

 

[Newman Noggs]

Which has to be bollocks as why would the governments react like this if it’s less lethal than normal Flu?

Maybe as a response to mass hysteria induced by people on social media shrieking their doomsday prophesies, abusing those who don't agree with them and reporting each death with disturbing glee all without the necessary data to have an informed opinion.

We saw the result and, at the same time, the real nature of people as they rushed to the shops to strip the shelves, not for old people, not for others, but for themselves. Wholly unnecessary, but what people do when they are frightened and panicking. It's not a huge step from there to looting and, from there, to lawlessness. In my opinion, the lockdown isn't about the virus, it's about controlling the hysteria.

Besides, I had it at Christmas.

 

[bluemoon32]

Fuck me, this thread has morphed into one of the political threads with everyone bitching & arguing.
Fuck social distancing, we should have forum distancing

 

[Ric]

Fuck me, this thread has morphed into one of the political threads with everyone bitching & arguing.
Fuck social distancing, we should have forum distancing

Yeah, there’s always going to be some overlap but let’s try and keep the political arguing to the other thread please. Let’s tone down some of the anti-China rhetoric whilst we’re at it too. Criticising their government’s handling of this is fine, but stigmatising an entire nation is not.