Racism in Football

JimB said:
Couldn’t disagree more.

The club and the police know exactly where the alleged monkey chant came from. It wouldn’t have taken many man hours to sift through the actions and words (lip readers were employed) of everyone in that area of the single tier end.

Furthermore, as I said immediately after the event, I was at the very front of the stand - less than twenty yards from Rudiger when he reacted to what he thought he had heard and gestured angrily at us. And at that very moment, we were all chanting “cheat, cheat, cheat....”. That is what he mistook for a monkey chant.
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I think, given the police findings, this is most likely.

By the way the thread was created generally for football, including City and not as an accusation at Spurs.
 
JimB said:
Couldn’t disagree more.

The club and the police know exactly where the alleged monkey chant came from. It wouldn’t have taken many man hours to sift through the actions and words (lip readers were employed) of everyone in that area of the single tier end.

Furthermore, as I said immediately after the event, I was at the very front of the stand - less than twenty yards from Rudiger when he reacted to what he thought he had heard and gestured angrily at us. And at that very moment, we were all chanting “cheat, cheat, cheat....”. That is what he mistook for a monkey chant.
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Lip reading is about as an exact science as phrenology and would be about as likely to be used as the sole basis for a police investigation. As for the hilarious "I can hear every single thing shouted by the thousands of people who stand around me so know exactly what he misheard", seriously mate.

The reality is that no one can be sure that no one racially abused him, it's literally impossible for anyone to know that. Maybe he misheard, maybe he didn't (mishearing the standard "cheat" chant you hear every week as monkey noises seems pretty implausible to me as they aren't even the same sound, but who knows). But acting like the police finding no evidence means it definitely didn't happen is pretty absurd.

Then again, I may be judging the police heavily on their inability to find evidence to catch a single person throwing things at our coach, despite them being all on film and standing on the fucking cop vans.
 
BigOscar said:
Lip reading is about as an exact science as phrenology and would be about as likely to be used as the sole basis for a police investigation. As for the hilarious "I can hear every single thing shouted by the thousands of people who stand around me so know exactly what he misheard", seriously mate.

The reality is that no one can be sure that no one racially abused him, it's literally impossible for anyone to know that. Maybe he misheard, maybe he didn't (mishearing the standard "cheat" chant you hear every week as monkey noises seems pretty implausible to me as they aren't even the same sound, but who knows). But acting like the police finding no evidence means it definitely didn't happen is pretty absurd.

Then again, I may be judging the police heavily on their inability to find evidence to catch a single person throwing things at our coach, despite them being all on film and standing on the fucking cop vans.
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Just a quick question about this part:

As for the hilarious "I can hear every single thing shouted by the thousands of people who stand around me so know exactly what he misheard", seriously mate.
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When hundreds, if not thousands, of people are chanting cheat over and over, do you think that Rudiger could genuinely distinguish one, lone voice making monkey noises over and above it? Seriously, mate? Not the slightest chance, I reckon.

As to "cheat, cheat, cheat..." not being the same sound as a monkey noise, I could point out that there are many different monkey noises. But I don't think I even need to. Because, if you've ever been among a crowd of English football fans chanting "cheat, cheat, cheat...", you'll know that it is always pronounced in a slightly affected manner. I wish I knew how to explain the sound better but I can say that it isn't a simple "ee" sound. As far as I've always been able to ascertain, this seems to be universal among English fans and not merely a regional dialect issue. Perhaps some of you could either confirm or put me right on that matter?

Regardless, the point remains that, to foreign ears (as Rudiger's are!) that aren't familiar with English fan culture, the somewhat unsynchronised, rapid chanting of "cheat, cheat, cheat...." could easily be mistaken for monkey noises, I reckon. The fact that Rudiger turned and gestured directly and angrily to us at the precise moment that we were chanting "cheat" confirms it, IMO.

Of course absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence. But given the first hand sequence of events that I've explained above; given the extreme unlikelihood of Rudiger being able to distinguish, beyond doubt, a lone monkey noise over and above hundreds or thousands of chants of "cheat"; given that no one else in the stadium heard monkey noises (bar one twitterer, who probably also misunderstood what he was hearing); given that Spurs' stadium is the most modern and technologically advanced stadium in the world, with perfect CCTV coverage of everyone inside; and given that extensive police and lip reader analysis failed to find any evidence to support Rudiger's claim, the balance of probability is overwhelmingly in favour of there having been no monkey noises.

And while no one should start pointing fingers at Rudiger for what was, in all probability, an innocent mistake, there should be widespread and sincere apologies forthcoming from all those who rushed to damning judgement of Spurs fans in particular and even football fans in general. Far too many people who ought to have known far better fell over themselves to support the player and condemn the fans without knowing any of the facts beyond the initial accusation. And while it's quite right that everything possible should be done to eradicate racism within football, it's quite wrong that the fundamental tenet of our justice system - innocent until proven guilty - should be sacrificed along the way.
 
As someone who’s been going to matches for a long time, I’d certainly say racism is still prevalent at all levels, but there’s more of a willingness to call it out. For example, if anybody used the N word by where I sit in Anfield, they’d get absolutely terrorised by all hands. I’m sure the same is true of the Etihad but at grounds like Goodison, the Brittania & a lot of London grounds, there seems to be a larger, more established element of right wing dogma. The trouble in this instance is that it’s almost impossible to make a judgment, but players should continue to highlight it even if it comes to nothing. Far better for players to speak up and investigations held rather than the usual carpet sweeping that goes on.
 
Paladin said:
What a sick individual, Patrick O'Brien is. He's just a kid, too. I can see life becoming quite uncomfortable for him in the near future. Hope he's well locked down, for his own sake.
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I'm guessing he's Irish (or at least Irish descent). If you look at that pic of his profile page on IG, there's a pic of a group of lads, and some of them are wearing Kerry GAA gear.

aJYKxwG.png
 
jimharri said:
I'm guessing he's Irish (or at least Irish descent). If you look at that pic of his profile page on IG, there's a pic of a group of lads, and some of them are wearing Kerry GAA gear.

aJYKxwG.png
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These guys obviously need to be re-educated regarding the modern way of thinking about race relations.
I suggest a 2 week vacation down The Moss would soon change the way they think and speak about Black people.
A pint or two and posing for photos (as above) in The Big Alex to start off with??
 
So Balloteli has suggested African players join him, pool their money and invest in African football infrastructure, build major stadia etc. Develop their own youth and sign a petition that no-one plays in Europe anymore.

Funnily enough, the same moronic racists that tell them all to ‘go back home’ are frothing at the mouth that that’s exactly what they might go and do.
 
I once reffed Willington V Hebburn in the Northern League. A black player went down injured for Hebburn. At this point I heard someone from the Willington bench shout "throw him a banana and he will be fine". This went in the match report but I was unable to identify who actually said it.
At the FA hearing Willington were let off. They did not deny the comment but their defence was that banana's give you energy & that is what they had intended. Now whilst teams get away with shit like this we will never defeat racism.
 
richardtheref said:
I once reffed Willington V Hebburn in the Northern League. A black player went down injured for Hebburn. At this point I heard someone from the Willington bench shout "throw him a banana and he will be fine". This went in the match report but I was unable to identify who actually said it.
At the FA hearing Willington were let off. They did not deny the comment but their defence was that banana's give you energy & that is what they had intended. Now whilst teams get away with shit like this we will never defeat racism.
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Did the same hearing manage to dish fines out for yellow cards though?

Priorities.....
 
richardtheref said:
I once reffed Willington V Hebburn in the Northern League. A black player went down injured for Hebburn. At this point I heard someone from the Willington bench shout "throw him a banana and he will be fine". This went in the match report but I was unable to identify who actually said it.
At the FA hearing Willington were let off. They did not deny the comment but their defence was that banana's give you energy & that is what they had intended. Now whilst teams get away with shit like this we will never defeat racism.
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The problem with that is not actually the stupid Bernard Manning style comnent, but the conspiracy of silence with the hearing. I refuse to believe that anyone there was stupid enough to think the banana=energy excuse was true. But to all act as if they did shows deeply ingrained institutional racism
 
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