COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Proy said:
Ok. Now we are both clear on our argument, I’ll try to explain why I believe they don’t need to issue any guidance on this.

1: The effectiveness of a face mask is very much open to debate.

2: Its not like hand washing, for example, which is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it helps stop the spread of a virus. This is why it is a public guidance.

You can’t push something when the end result may not actually have the effect it needs. That is irresponsible leadership. Its also, why, they have left us to decide.

That is the correct decision and I fully support the government in this measure.
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1. Is balderdash. 25% to 64% of deaths resulting from close contact infection would not have happened if face covering had been worn. The science is now certain.
2. Is more effective than face covering. But to not do 1 is rank stupidity.
 
Nellies left peg said:
Not a conspiracy theory just an observation but I'm sure tests into facemask use would have been carried out before this pandemic and instead of saying they were waiting for evidence, they should have known either way
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Research into face masks has been ongoing for centuries.

No definitive answer has ever really been found, certainly not to the extent of hand washing.

They were never going to get a clear direction, and maybe they were waiting to see if something more concrete would land.

We can’t expect them to justify and explain every single choice they make.

They have to assume that the majority of the nation can make their own call.
 
Proy said:
There are. I don’t disagree

But hand washing is the most effective. That is why they are pushing it.

I could rattle off 20 other measures that may produce some positive effect against this virus.

Maybe I should contact my local MP and ask if they can be passed to Downing Street so that every fucker in the UK who needs their arse wiping can see it as well.

It’s a fucking tedious argument.

They have outlined the most effective measures against the virus.

They don’t think a face mask is one.

Look, I could go on forever with a number of people on this debate so I’ll end with this:

I agree that the decision not endorse the use of a face mask is the correct choice.
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Read this
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468042720300117?via=ihub

One of the 20+ recent scientific reports that state face coverings ARE effective.
 
BlueAnorak said:
1. Is balderdash. 25% to 64% of deaths resulting from close contact infection would not have happened if face covering had been worn. The science is now certain.
2. Is more effective than face covering. But to not do 1 is rank stupidity.
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Im not arguing about the effectiveness of a face mask alone, I’m putting it up against hand washing because that has been issued as a public guidance, and given that the debate here is about the government not pushing it, I thought it was quite relevant.

For the last time, I don’t dispute that a face mask is probably better than not wearing one, my argument is that based on the research it’s not something that would be used as a public guidance.

Not going round circles anymore on this one.

They decided it wasn’t required in the message or the public guidance. I agree with that choice. Some don’t.

I’m out!
 
BlueAnorak said:
New Zealand 4.9m people, sparsely populated without an international travel hub and fully in control of it's own borders.
My 4 year old granddaughter could have done as good a job.
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Whoever made the video could have used South Korea or Germany as the comparison though with the same effect
 
Proy said:
Im not arguing about the effectiveness of a face mask alone, I’m putting it up against hand washing because that has been issued as a public guidance, and given that the debate here is about the government not pushing it, I thought it was quite relevant.

For the last time, I don’t dispute that a face mask is probably better than not wearing one, my argument is that based on the research it’s not something that would be used as a public guidance.

Not going round circles anymore on this one.

They decided it wasn’t required in the message or the public guidance. I agree with that choice. Some don’t.

I’m out!
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Good. They do need to be done TOGETHER. The face covering is only required when you are less than 2m apart.
 
Proy said:
Ok. Now we are both clear on our argument, I’ll try to explain why I believe they don’t need to issue any guidance on this.

1: The effectiveness of a face mask is very much open to debate.

2: Its not like hand washing, for example, which is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it helps stop the spread of a virus. This is why it is a public guidance.

You can’t push something when the end result may not actually have the effect it needs. That is irresponsible leadership. Its also, why, they have left us to decide.

That is the correct decision and I fully support the government in this measure.
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The government did say when using public transport or confine places where there is a lot of people its recommenced to wear a face mask.

I get both points, some people like to be told or need to do.
 
I have seen a lot of stuff posted on this thread complaining about people having a go at the government, constantly describing it as tedious or petty political point scoring. Yet there are number of posters who will go through all manner of mental contortions to excuse anything and everything the government does and seem intent on absolving them of any kind of responsibility. Peronally I think that is petty political point scoring and very fucking tedious indeed.
 
Kinkladze 1 said:
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Only in the fullness of time will we find out which policy was best. If a vaccine isn't found (not a given) then hiding away will ruin New Zealand, how do they come out of lockdown into a Covid-19 ridden world? Same with Germany, China TBH. Let's hope the magic bullet arrives quickly and we can immunise the elderly/at risk as we do with Flu.
 
waspish said:
The government did say when using public transport or confine places where there is a lot of people its recommenced to wear a face mask.

I get both points, some people like to be told or need to do.
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They did and it’s why I wear one. I’ve had a look at the detail and made my own choice.

Initially two sips was getting pissed because it wasn’t being pushed centrally as much as he would like.

My argument all along has been to explain why they haven’t done that en masse.
 
Busmo Funbag said:
I have seen a lot of stuff posted on this thread complaining about people having a go at the government, constantly describing it as tedious or petty political point scoring. Yet there are number of posters who will go through all manner of mental contortions to excuse anything and everything the government does and seem intent on absolving them of any kind of responsibility. Peronally I think that is petty political point scoring and very fucking tedious indeed.
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That is a stipulate point in most debates on here. It’s human nature to operate the extreme during an argument. People think it helps expand their point.

Neither is tedious.
 
Proy said:
They did and it’s why I wear one. I’ve had a look at the detail and made my own choice.

Initially two sips was getting pissed because it wasn’t being pushed centrally as much as he would like.

My argument all along has been to explain why they haven’t done that en masse.
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Up to date article on the potential effects of survivors medium term health on cv19 and very interesting analysis of monitoring that happened during the subsequent years to the initial 2003 SARS survivors, not very positive follow up data on those who survived unfortunately :-(

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...lth-effects-can-last-long-after-virus-is-gone

Also think this section needs highlighting for future consideration on policy seeing as we are always behind the curve on the science.

There is some hope: Early intervention could play a role in longer-term outcomes of coronavirus patients, said Ivan Hung, a professor of medicine at the University of Hong Kong. Hung said in April that 90% of about 200 discharged patients he oversaw at a clinic at one of the city’s hospitals appear to be making a full recovery a month out.

He attributed the success to Hong Kong’s “early diagnosis and early treatment” of patients, which leaves the virus with less time to wreak havoc on the body.

 
You can't go to work in London without using public transport. To restart work in London without South Korean protective measures in place is rediculous.
That said Khan and TfL has done absolutely nothing over the last 6 weeks for this to happen.
Will the government remove parking restrictions to facilitate work without using public transport?
 
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