COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Lancet Fluke said:
I'm not advocating painting an unnecessarily bleak picture either but I was listening to some mental health expert who had done a lot of work with the armed forces in Afghanistan. He was saying that you just have to be as honest as possible about things when there aren't certainties that you can give people. If you paint an overly bleak picture then clearly that is no good but he said they realised that if they gave soldiers an optimistic prediction of when they would be going home then it was noticeable how detrimental it was to mental health in the long run when those predictions didn't come to fruition. He noted that if you were just as honest as possible from the start, even if the predictions were not what people wanted to hear, they were able to prepare themselves for what was to come and tended to cope much better mentally overall. He was referencing this in the context of discussing covid and his view was that people need to know the most likely scenario where possible. Every time I have seen anything from that oncologist, it has been something that just seems unlikely and highly optimistic. I'm not sure that helps anyone tbh. But that's only my opinion.
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twosips said:
My problem with him is that he doesn't appreciate the potential danger of his words. I follow him as I do think he says some useful things sometimes. Other times though he infuriates me. The other day he shared his thoughts that it may burn out. A theory that was basically just one possibility, literally just based on a hopeful guess tbh. Next day we've got articles in national newspapers saying 'leading professor says coronavirus could disappear'. This could then lead people to not take it seriously, dropping their guard and not 'staying alert', which could then result in the potential death of one our loved ones.

Yes, I know he didn't write those headlines, but he simply has to be more cautious. He's an intelligent man and should be aware of the potential effects of tweeting that out to 250k followers. You can literally see the effects on here - posters have cited their opinion that it could just go away, referencing him. Im not saying they have dropped their guard personally, but I guarantee someone would have. Its dangerous IMO, and it needs more consideration. I don't mind optimism, and I do appreciate it, but he needs to consider his approach a bit more at times.
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Two good, well reasoned posts here guys. As I say, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with either of you or Karen here. I've said before that I prefer being told how it is, no matter how poor that picture is. Just feel we're getting told that A LOT over the past few months so in that time it's been a bit beneficial to hear someone scraping at the barrel for something a bit more positive.

Also, from what I've noticed, posts such as suggesting things might peter out are quite rare from him. His usual optimism seems to be in noticing infection rates drop, or death rates drop - and is quick to point it out. Or if there's a weekend lag and subsequently a big figure on a Tuesday then he'll point that out too. Then with other countries opening up certain aspects of normal life - I like hearing that stuff.

Hark at me bigging up a guy I'd never heard of 2 months ago, just think he and others like him might deserve to be cut a bit of slack.
 
twosips said:
Ah yes, how dare they get uneasy about losing their jobs, cancelling everything they have planned, worrying about vulnerable family members etc. If only they had 'common sense' hey? Cheers, BlueAndroid.

Edit - that 'BlueAndroid' thing was a flippant joke, before you get annoyed by it. It isn't fair to label everyone who is struggling as lacking common sense though. Quite cruel in fact.
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Just ignore them both mate. Maybe can just sit back and enjoy how strong they are at managing issues compared with others. Or possibly they could sit back and wonder what type of prick would want to simple someone who feels things a bit differently to them. A cunts trick really. No idea where that came from or why soneone would feel the need to do that. What a ****. Ignore it mate.
 
ayrshire_blue said:
Depends how things play out. If he's getting people through this stage which we're at, then the situation improves even by a different means, will he have done any damage?
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I think people working in health and other front line services often need to see the glass half full and they sometimes help others to see there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Also, Prof. Sikora want to see the range of healthcare services restored, safely, because the continued lockdown is damaging lots of people.
 
Interesting listening to Jeremy C u next Tuesday going on about how we had put all our eggs into the flu basket and been preparing for that and not a Coronavirus so we had been caught out, suggesting a huge element of bad luck resulting in our struggles.

I assume for a flu pandemic then hospital and care staff wouldn't need PPE and that's why we never had any then? Or perhaps we're just using excuses because you've been caught with your pants down completley unprepared despite advice for years on end eh?
 
Len Rum said:
Nah.
Lots of implied criticism of government.
Like Germany, South Korea really great at testing AND
On schools opening - it is perfectly possible to have a rapid responsive testing system in place, that would be the scientific advice and it is an operational matter ( I.e. over to you Government).
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Is your criticism that the scientific officer told the truth? These people are not news presenters by trainings and being involved in a response (albeit in an advisory capacity) to a pandemic that has cost tens of thousands of people lives would be likely to stress most people out.
 
ayrshire_blue said:
Interesting listening to Jeremy C u next Tuesday going on about how we had put all our eggs into the flu basket and been preparing for that and not a Coronavirus so we had been caught out, suggesting a huge element of bad luck resulting in our struggles.

I assume for a flu pandemic then hospital and care staff wouldn't need PPE and that's why we never had any then? Or perhaps we're just using excuses because you've been caught with your pants down completley unprepared despite advice for years on end eh?
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The programme i watched yesterday said we thought it was like flu and the modellers didnt include testing ,that explains a lot
 
BlueAnorak said:
You really have no idea how difficult it is get a centralised beuauracracy to change track.
The main mistakes were made in 2004 and 2015 by not adopting the lessons of SARS and MERS. Topped off with total arrogance as to the benefits of face coverings on public transport and in enclosed spaces for fighting ANY virus.
The NHS and PHE are devolved functions to Wales and Scotland. Are they in a better position? No they aren't. Slightly worse actually on % of care homes with infections.
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Scotland’s and Wales’ death rate is 30% lower than England’s so far. So at the moment they are in a better position overall.
 
ayrshire_blue said:
Interesting listening to Jeremy C u next Tuesday going on about how we had put all our eggs into the flu basket and been preparing for that and not a Coronavirus so we had been caught out, suggesting a huge element of bad luck resulting in our struggles.

I assume for a flu pandemic then hospital and care staff wouldn't need PPE and that's why we never had any then? Or perhaps we're just using excuses because you've been caught with your pants down completley unprepared despite advice for years on end eh?
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I dont think he is a reliable voice on this. He was turfed out of his post as Health Sec after Johnson won the leadership contest and he has the hump more than likely
 
twosips said:
Ah yes, how dare they get uneasy about losing their jobs, cancelling everything they have planned, worrying about vulnerable family members etc. If only they had 'common sense' hey? Cheers, BlueAndroid.

Edit - that 'BlueAndroid' thing was a flippant joke, before you get annoyed by it. It isn't fair to label everyone who is struggling as lacking common sense though. Quite cruel in fact.
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I quite like it (Blue Android that is).

As to the rest, sorry but I'm not into touchy feely crap. Many are worried and frankly the government, business, unions and opposition are doing a pretty shit job of calming fears.
That said taking responsibility for your own actions helps dramatically.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
No. Don’t agree with that. I worry. Bit like you have spent my life stressed by work mainly but have always coped mentally. What @twosips described is more a physical reaction and I have seen it at different times and in different ways with friends and relatives.

Panic attacks, physical responses, caused by mental health issues go way beyond worry so I do think there is a scale of response and everyone is very different. Those of us that cope with stress and just ‘worry’ are just fortunate rather than strong.
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I'd never had any health problems, always thought I was invincible, never even been to the doctor until one day a couple of years back..... I was a bit dizzy at work and so went for a walk, the thinking about the reason for the dizziness got my heart racing which made me worse and then I had a full blown panic attack. There was pain up my arm, tunnel vision, pain in the chest area, couldn't breathe etc... I got back to the office, made my excuses and then drove myself to A&E thinking I was having a heart attack....... Turned out it wasn't a heart attack (at age 28!) obviously.

After that day I had a good few months of health worrying and the constant adrenaline in your system wipes you out. On some days I could barely lift my arms and my stomach went completely to pot with indigestion, cramps and then I started worrying about that.. At night, even the thought of not being able to sleep triggered my heart racing, sweating etc and I had plenty of sleepless nights.

Anxiety is 100% just a self-defeating cycle of worry that is triggered by something and it can floor you. Honestly I was one of those people who'd be saying you just need to be thicker skinned etc a few years ago... It honestly isn't true, it can be triggered for anyone.

For me it took 6 months to really calm it down and the physical symptoms went away. The only cure was accepting that anxiety was the real cause of all of my problems.
 
west didsblue said:
Scotland’s and Wales’ death rate is 30% lower than England’s so far. So at the moment they are in a better position overall.
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45% of deaths in Scotand are in care homes.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...homes-death-toll-likely-significantly-higher/

21% of deaths in England are in Care Homes.
25% of deaths in Wales are in Care Homes.
37% average in the EU (66% in Spain)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...care-homes-than-european-states-idUSKBN22V1VI

Incidently in Canada its 81%
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...494ad4-947f-11ea-87a3-22d324235636_story.html

Slightly higher overall death rate per in Scotland (9.5%) than in England (8.2%) from cases in hospital and care home. I Cant find the figure quickly for Wales.

Don't get me wrong some big fucking mistakes have been made. But the same mistakes are being made everywhere in the west.
 
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inbetween said:
I'd never had any health problems, always thought I was invincible, never even been to the doctor until one day a couple of years back..... I was a bit dizzy at work and so went for a walk, the thinking about the reason for the dizziness got my heart racing which made me worse and then I had a full blown panic attack. There was pain up my arm, tunnel vision, pain in the chest area, couldn't breathe etc... I got back to the office, made my excuses and then drove myself to A&E thinking I was having a heart attack....... Turned out it wasn't a heart attack (at age 28!) obviously.

After that day I had a good few months of health worrying and the constant adrenaline in your system wipes you out. On some days I could barely lift my arms and my stomach went completely to pot with indigestion, cramps and then I started worrying about that.. At night, even the thought of not being able to sleep triggered my heart racing, sweating etc and I had plenty of sleepless nights.

Anxiety is 100% just a self-defeating cycle of worry that is triggered by something and it can floor you. Honestly I was one of those people who'd be saying you just need to be thicker skinned etc a few years ago... It honestly isn't true, it can be triggered for anyone.

For me it took 6 months to really calm it down and the physical symptoms went away. The only cure was accepting that anxiety was the real cause of all of my problems.
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Definitely sounds like a bad case of simple worry and lack of common sense to me ;)
 
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