Another new Brexit thread

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hgblue said:
I think it was pointed out to you on numerous occasions that Brexit would lead to a federal Europe. We don’t fear a federal Europe, we just didn’t want to be a part of it. Now that the Brits are out of the way you can crack on building your superstate which was always the plan. Here’s my question, what do you think the response of the people of Europe will be when the penny drops that they are no longer sovereign nations?
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You think the UK sitting 22 miles off-shore of a federalised Europe wont be part of it? It will inevitably remain plugged into it. No matter what we do we will remain plugged into it. Our proposals for the UK/EU future trade deal sees us plugged into it. Services, security, data sharing, supply chains, no tariffs etc. What we don’t want is the responsibility that goes with it. We want all the upside but none of the shared costs involved. No country is owed a free lunch.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The argument was that leavers have been considered liars whenever we mentioned that this was the future of Europe, and dissenters saying that this was never a reality. You must have missed that.

And anyway, without the UK's influence, the "beast" you mention is a mere poodle on the grand scheme of things, so us leaving it prevents the federalised Europe being anywhere near as influential as its supporters would like.
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If the EU sans UK is a mere poodle what does that make the UK?

You didn’t think that through did you?
 
BobKowalski said:
You think the UK sitting 22 miles off-shore of a federalised Europe wont be part of it? It will inevitably remain plugged into it. No matter what we do we will remain plugged into it. Our proposals for the UK/EU future trade deal sees us plugged into it. Services, security, data sharing, supply chains, no tariffs etc. What we don’t want is the responsibility that goes with it. We want all the upside but none of the shared costs involved. No country is owed a free lunch.
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This was all explained to the British people ad Infinitum. Then we had a referendum to decide. Then we had a GE to ensure the referendum decision was implemented. We’ve made our choice, time to move on.
 
BobKowalski said:
If the EU sans UK is a mere poodle what does that make the UK?

You didn’t think that through did you?
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One nation giving the EU major clout and respectability. You didn't think that through, did you?

And we aren't the ones with aspirations to take on the US, Russia and China and see them as "the enemy".

The Days of Empire's are over boomer, stop trying to become part of a new one.
 
hgblue said:
This was all explained to the British people ad Infinitum. Then we had a referendum to decide. Then we had a GE to ensure the referendum decision was implemented. We’ve made our choice, time to move on.
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Yet we are still persisting in asking for a lot in return for nothing, the Govt is still knee deep in negotiations and struggling to understand and implement what it has already agreed. And all this in the middle of an increasingly mishandled pandemic.

It would be nice if we could just ‘move on’. Unfortunately ‘moving on’ was never a unilateral choice. To ‘move on’ we need the agreement of 27 other countries.
 
BobKowalski said:
Yet we are still persisting in asking for a lot in return for nothing, the Govt is still knee deep in negotiations and struggling to understand and implement what it has already agreed. And all this in the middle of an increasingly mishandled pandemic.

It would be nice if we could just ‘move on’. Unfortunately ‘moving on’ was never a unilateral choice. To ‘move on’ we need the agreement of 27 other countries.
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It’s a negotiation, we ask for we want, we lay out our red lines, if we can’t agree we move on. It’s not our side currently crying for an extension.
 
west didsblue said:
He has clearly deluded himself into thinking we’re a major world power by ourselves and the EU are nothing without us.
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Grown men acting like kids in a playground "snickering" to one another! :)

I don't believe we're a "world power" in fact I vehemently oppose the term "world power". I don't seek to dominate others, you clearly do. Simply put, you've misunderstood, again.

You want to be part of "POWAH". I don't. I seek global co-operation with the UK playing it's part, not dominating policy.

 
hgblue said:
It’s a negotiation, we ask for we want, we lay out our red lines, if we can’t agree we move on. It’s not our side currently crying for an extension.
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The EU itself cannot even decide amongst themselves what it wants from the UK.
That's the problem with having to deal with 27 vested interests.

The discussions should be kept to tarriff free trade, not trying to pick certain parts about what each members of the negotiations wants extra.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The EU itself cannot even decide amongst themselves what it wants from the UK.
That's the problem with having to deal with 27 vested interests.

The discussions should be kept to tarriff free trade, not trying to pick certain parts about what each members of the negotiations wants extra.
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The EU published its proposals in March. The EU has spelt out in detail what it wants.
 
BobKowalski said:
The EU published its proposals in March. The EU has spelt out in detail what it wants.
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And we've said no. We've told them what we want, and they've said no. We can't agree, we'll never agree, because to the EU it's not about "free trade", it's about retaining dominance and ensuring no other member considers leaving. End the farce, no extensions, go about our separate ways.

I also think you believe that the 27 EU member nations governments are all in agreement with what the EU proposed.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
And we've said no. We've told them what we want, and they've said no. We can't agree, we'll never agree, because to the EU it's not about "free trade", it's about retaining dominance and ensuring no other member considers leaving. End the farce, no extensions, go about our separate ways.

I also think you believe that the 27 EU member nations governments are all in agreement with what the EU proposed.
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Are you referring to the EU mandate for negotiations as discussed and agreed to by the 27 member nations?

Do you not think it would be a good idea for you to research how the EU works before posting any more dribbling nonsense?
 
BobKowalski said:
Are you referring to the EU mandate for negotiations as discussed and agreed to by the 27 member nations?

Do you not think it would be a good idea for you to research how the EU works before posting any more dribbling nonsense?
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Up until when they claimed they "represented" the EU member nations and acting by themselves claiming to have their members "best interests at heart". (If you belive that you'll believe anything)

And there's no more need. We're out of it. End the negotiations, we cannot agree.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
No need. We're out of it. End the negotiations, we cannot agree.
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Couple of points:

The EU agreed on the negotiating mandate, So they are agreed.

There is no equivalent mandate for the UK that was agreed by anyone other than the tory government and their unelected advisers. The component parts of the UK never agreed to brexit or anything that is being negotiated. The Scots, NI, Wales all have to lump it.

As for the EU crying out for an extension - they know what is coming. A massive bill for implementing no deal, costs for stuff that serves only to inhibit trade. Dead money. It will not be a long term solution. They know that the shit will hit the fan when the detail comes out and they know the UK government and press will seek to blame the EU. They are making it as clear as possible that this is unnecessary at this time. When hundreds of millions are spent they will be able to say we did not want this - we wanted to delay and keep talking. They know that talks are a waste of time but there is a choice about what to do from here - it doesn't have to be no deal in January 2021 if the UK make that choice then the EU will make it very very clear that was what happened and they are forced to take the actions they will.
 
Gaudion M said:
Couple of points:

The EU agreed on the negotiating mandate, So they are agreed.

There is no equivalent mandate for the UK that was agreed by anyone other than the tory government and their unelected advisers. The component parts of the UK never agreed to brexit or anything that is being negotiated. The Scots, NI, Wales all have to lump it.

As for the EU crying out for an extension - they know what is coming. A massive bill for implementing no deal, costs for stuff that serves only to inhibit trade. Dead money. It will not be a long term solution. They know that the shit will hit the fan when the detail comes out and they know the UK government and press will seek to blame the EU. They are making it as clear as possible that this is unnecessary at this time. When hundreds of millions are spent they will be able to say we did not want this - we wanted to delay and keep talking. They know that talks are a waste of time but there is a choice about what to do from here - it doesn't have to be no deal in January 2021 if the UK make that choice then the EU will make it very very clear that was what happened and they are forced to take the actions they will.
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Parliament dictates how the UK's EU Trade Deal negotiations will concluded, and it is currently dominated, after a recent national General Election, by MP's who are in favour of leaving the EU with a deal, ahead of those MP's who do not wish to leave at all.

Since England, Scotland, Wales and to some extent Northern Ireland are combined and represented at Westminster and the House of Commons, i'd say that this nation, by the result of people having voted in favour majorily for leave supporting MP's, that your little "slight" that Scotland, NI and Wales (who also voted in favour of leaving... yet people like you always forget that and make this a "England vs ROUK" issue) is absolute bollocks.

You must have missed the entire point about what the GE was meant to resolve (hint: it wasn't free broadband) It is going to be no deal, we are going to sever all ties with the EU, and the EU will have to shoulder a lot of the blame for trying to turn the trade negotiations into an exercise to punish a former member to ensure other members don't have the same idea. Best you start preparing for it.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:

It is going to be no deal, we are going to sever all ties with the EU, and the EU will have to shoulder a lot of the blame for trying to turn the trade negotiations into an exercise to punish a former member to ensure other members don't have the same idea. Best you start preparing for it.
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As a European nation how do we sever all ties with Europe? Do we pretend they don’t exist? Reissue all text books with Europe blanked out and replaced with the words ‘here be dragons’?

I remember the days when leaving the EU was going to be easy with sunlit uplands and unicorns for everyone. Now it’s Mad Max meets Apocalypse Now.

Anything think it all went a bit tits up in the last four years?
 
BobKowalski said:
As a European nation how do we sever all ties with Europe? Do we pretend they don’t exist? Reissue all text books with Europe blanked out and replaced with the words ‘here be dragons’?

I remember the days when leaving the EU was going to be easy with sunlit uplands and unicorns for everyone. Now it’s Mad Max meets Apocalypse Now.

Anything think it all went a bit tits up in the last four years?
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I said the EU, not Europe. The EU is not all of Europe, nor does it mean "Europe". It's a political bloc.

Read properly before you post. It helps make you look sensible. (unless you're labouring under the delusion that "EU = Europe"... and you wouldn't be that silly, would you?)
 
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