Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

[Len Rum]

I think we saw the future PM yesterday. Rishi Sunack. The only blot on his copybook for me was him towing the cabinet line over the defence of Cummings. Aside from that he has been the stand out government performer.

Pretty low bar.
In any case he was a Cummings appointment.
As a PM we need someone who is their own man.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

You can wish all you want mate .... he'll never be PM of the Conservatives .. and you know why.

Sorry yes i forgot they are all racisits. Lol oh dear.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Pretty low bar.
In any case he was a Cummings appointment.
As a PM we need someone who is their own man.

Dissagree Len, he is head and shoulders above the rest of them. Alok Sharma is second by the way. The rest just arent very good. Cummings has something on Johnson and Gove. Lets hope he doesnt on Sunack.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I get that,but I just cant warm to Starmer at all and he appears to be doing everything he can to alienate the left of the Labour party. He just doesn't inspire me at all but then hardly anybody in the Labour party does. It is becoming the party of the middle class liberals, more akin to the American Democrats than the Party of Socialist values.

I did post, maybe on here I cant remember exactly that the EU referendum would damage the Labour party far more than it would the Tories because Labour always had a tradition of being Anti-EU that had been supressed by the Blairites and this allowed the working class to be exploited by the far right for nefarious ends as Labour was seen as the party of the liberal metropolitan elite. It was Starmer and his disastrous stance on the EU that allowed the Tories to take the red wall. Corbyn should have come out and been true to himself and supported leave, but he was hamstrung by the Labour PLP and that opened the door for an opportunist like Johnson to take power. The Labour party PLP is as responsible for that **** Johnson being in power as anyone.

It breaks my heart to see the likes of Reeves in the shadow cabinet, she supported Osbornes crusade against the welfare state and many in the Labour party like Cooper did as well, they let the working class down big time. This all created the conditions for the perfect storm that resulted in Johnson being able to convince working class people that the Tories had their interests at heart. The actions of those handful of cunts at Labour HQ and the traitorous actions of Watson have left the party in disarray, it is losing members by the thousands and the chance it had for real change has passed and the Tories as proven by the events of this week are virtually untouchable. The only saving grace is Brexit and what comes after, maybe Labour can rise again after Brexit but it fucking wnt if it comes out as a pro-rejoin party. It has to accept the reality of BREXIT and revel in the fact we are out of the capitalist club and act accordingly, sadly under Starmer I just cant see that happening and can only see at least another decade of Tory misrule.

Great post Rascal. Always an interesting stance and perspective.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Nay, nay and thrice nay, Russ.

Think back to the Blair/Brown government. For all their faults, they made the lives of the majority of working people better. They did two things in particular: they improved our public services by putting a lot more money into them, and they improved the household incomes of the overwhelming majority of working class families through the tax credits system. Although they never called it that, the introduction of Working Families Tax Credits was pure redistribution of wealth.

Let me remind you of the way the scheme worked. If you were in work and earned less than a certain amount, - about 50k a year from memory, so the overwhelming majority of the working population, you were entitled to a tax credit - a cash payment from the government. There was a relatively modest basic entitlement, which increased for part time workers, single parents, those with disabilities and those needing childcare. The greater the need, the more generous the payment, and unlike previous benefit systems it didn’t penalise returning to work or working. Ore, it encouraged it because you lost only about a third of your benefits for every pound you were over the threshold.

it was no surprise that one of the first acts of the coalition government in 2010 was to reduce massively the value to most families of the tax credit regime. You can argue about whether that was purely a result of the desire to reduce the deficit, or was ideologically driven. Either way, it happened: those receiving the tax credits either lost them completely or saw the payments reduced. The rest is history: you don’t need me to tell you what kind of an impact a decade of austerity has had on the neediest people in our society.

For all that Blair and Brown are criticised by many as being Tory-lite, they have done more for working people in the last forty years than every other leader of the Labour Party put together, and by a vast difference, because they have been in office. I sometimes wonder whether “I’m Not A Tory” is a good enough reason for voting for someone like Starmer. Then I look at the Covid 19 death toll and quit reminds me that it is. He might not be as left wing as you’d like, but if he is elected he will achieve a damn sight more to defend working people than Corbyn or Miliband. So if you don’t warm to Starmer, I don’t blame you because that won’t sit well with your principles, and that’s fine. I completely respect that whilst not agreeing. But I do ask that you recognise that he will be better for us as a nation by far than the cretins we have running the show now, and that is perhaps that is reason enough. People are dying, unnecessarily, because of ideological decisions this mob have taken, and they are lying to us about
how many, when and why. Maybe all politicians lie, but this bunch of cunts have taken it way beyond the next level.

Brexit, by the by, is a ship that has sailed. Those who know me know why I think it was a bad idea, promoted furiously by those who wanted to avoid the incoming new wave of anti tax avoidance laws emanating from the EU and likely to hit our serviced based economy far harder than it would hit Europe. Whether I was right or wrong is a moot point: we’ve left. What follows now is doing the best we can as a nation. We won’t rejoin, because even if we wanted to - and Brexit is now a matter of faith for many, not reason - the EU wouldn’t let us back on the same terms as we had before, with our rebate and our opt-outs. It would be too much of a National humiliation for us to go back in without the advantages we have just thrown away and our national character won’t, in my view, stand for it. Also, even leavers recognise, I think, that even though they won the vote, our society is not a better place for having gone through the experience of the last four years. I expect Starmer to recognise that, and to understand that we can’t tear ourselves apart as a nation the way we have done since the referendum. So we’re out, and for better or for worse, we’re staying out.

Agreed ... and whilst never a fan of Corbyn .. I was a fan of the policies, (looks like the Tories are as well because they seem to be implementing most of them ) so Im prepared to wait and see what the next manifesto looks like. I certainly won't be jumping ship to another party with a leader that can be destroyed by the Mail et al because of the baggage.

The other point that you didn't mention was that whilst the last labour Government improved the lives of the working class in the UK ... it did for the third world as well by cancelling the debt that they owed and never had a chance of repaying. Something the Tories would never do.

 

[Chris in London]

Agreed ... and whilst never a fan of Corbyn .. I was a fan of the policies, (looks like the Tories are as well because they seem to be implementing most of them ) so Im prepared to wait and see what the next manifesto looks like. I certainly won't be jumping ship to another party with a leader that can be destroyed by the Mail et al because of the baggage.

The other point that you didn't mention was that whilst the last labour Government improved the lives of the working class in the UK ... it did for the third world as well by cancelling the debt that they owed and never had a chance of repaying. Something the Tories would never do.

Interesting you mention the policies.

I thought free internet access nationally was an absolutely brilliant policy and would do more for the nation than many other policies put together. Others, eg nationalising companies without compensation, would have been state sponsored theft. Others view it differently.

Labour’s fundamental problem, in my view, was not necessarily the individual policies, but the combination of them. They would have cost a fortune. But that specific policy about free internet for all was I think was absolutely brilliant, and I would applaud any government, even this mob of chancers and liars, that introduced it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Nay, nay and thrice nay, Russ.

Think back to the Blair/Brown government. For all their faults, they made the lives of the majority of working people better. They did two things in particular: they improved our public services by putting a lot more money into them, and they improved the household incomes of the overwhelming majority of working class families through the tax credits system. Although they never called it that, the introduction of Working Families Tax Credits was pure redistribution of wealth.

Let me remind you of the way the scheme worked. If you were in work and earned less than a certain amount, - about 50k a year from memory, so the overwhelming majority of the working population, you were entitled to a tax credit - a cash payment from the government. There was a relatively modest basic entitlement, which increased for part time workers, single parents, those with disabilities and those needing childcare. The greater the need, the more generous the payment, and unlike previous benefit systems it didn’t penalise returning to work or working. Rather, it encouraged it because you lost only about a third of your benefits for every pound you were over the threshold.

it was no surprise that one of the first acts of the coalition government in 2010 was to reduce massively the value to most families of the tax credit regime. You can argue about whether that was purely a result of the desire to reduce the deficit, or was ideologically driven. Either way, it happened: those receiving the tax credits either lost them completely or saw the payments reduced. The rest is history: you don’t need me to tell you what kind of an impact a decade of austerity has had on the neediest people in our society.

For all that Blair and Brown are criticised by many as being Tory-lite, they have done more for working people in the last forty years than every other leader of the Labour Party put together, and by a vast difference, because they have been in office. I sometimes wonder whether “I’m Not A Tory” is a good enough reason for voting for someone like Starmer. Then I look at the Covid 19 death toll and it reminds me that it is. He might not be as left wing as you’d like, but if he is elected he will achieve a damn sight more to defend working people than Corbyn or Miliband. So if you don’t warm to Starmer, I don’t blame you because that won’t sit well with your principles, and that’s fine. I completely respect that whilst not agreeing. But I do ask that you recognise that he will be better for us as a nation by far than the cretins we have running the show now, and that is perhaps that is reason enough. People are dying, unnecessarily, because of ideological decisions this mob have taken, and they are lying to us about
how many, when and why. Maybe all politicians lie, but this bunch of cunts have taken it way beyond the next level.

Brexit, by the by, is a ship that has sailed. Those who know me know why I think it was a bad idea, promoted furiously by those who wanted to avoid the incoming new wave of anti tax avoidance laws emanating from the EU and likely to hit our serviced based economy far harder than it would hit Europe. Whether I was right or wrong is a moot point: we’ve left. What follows now is doing the best we can as a nation. We won’t rejoin, because even if we wanted to - and Brexit is now a matter of faith for many, not reason - the EU wouldn’t let us back on the same terms as we had before, with our rebate and our opt-outs. It would be too much of a National humiliation for us to go back in without the advantages we have just thrown away and our national character won’t, in my view, stand for it. Also, even leavers recognise, I think, that even though they won the vote, our society is not a better place for having gone through the experience of the last four years. I expect Starmer to recognise that, and to understand that we can’t tear ourselves apart as a nation the way we have done since the referendum. So we’re out, and for better or for worse, we’re staying out.

Another good post and a great response. Thanks for sharing those views.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Nay, nay and thrice nay, Russ.

Think back to the Blair/Brown government. For all their faults, they made the lives of the majority of working people better. They did two things in particular: they improved our public services by putting a lot more money into them, and they improved the household incomes of the overwhelming majority of working class families through the tax credits system. Although they never called it that, the introduction of Working Families Tax Credits was pure redistribution of wealth.

Let me remind you of the way the scheme worked. If you were in work and earned less than a certain amount, - about 50k a year from memory, so the overwhelming majority of the working population, you were entitled to a tax credit - a cash payment from the government. There was a relatively modest basic entitlement, which increased for part time workers, single parents, those with disabilities and those needing childcare. The greater the need, the more generous the payment, and unlike previous benefit systems it didn’t penalise returning to work or working. Rather, it encouraged it because you lost only about a third of your benefits for every pound you were over the threshold.

it was no surprise that one of the first acts of the coalition government in 2010 was to reduce massively the value to most families of the tax credit regime. You can argue about whether that was purely a result of the desire to reduce the deficit, or was ideologically driven. Either way, it happened: those receiving the tax credits either lost them completely or saw the payments reduced. The rest is history: you don’t need me to tell you what kind of an impact a decade of austerity has had on the neediest people in our society.

For all that Blair and Brown are criticised by many as being Tory-lite, they have done more for working people in the last forty years than every other leader of the Labour Party put together, and by a vast difference, because they have been in office. I sometimes wonder whether “I’m Not A Tory” is a good enough reason for voting for someone like Starmer. Then I look at the Covid 19 death toll and it reminds me that it is. He might not be as left wing as you’d like, but if he is elected he will achieve a damn sight more to defend working people than Corbyn or Miliband. So if you don’t warm to Starmer, I don’t blame you because that won’t sit well with your principles, and that’s fine. I completely respect that whilst not agreeing. But I do ask that you recognise that he will be better for us as a nation by far than the cretins we have running the show now, and that is perhaps that is reason enough. People are dying, unnecessarily, because of ideological decisions this mob have taken, and they are lying to us about
how many, when and why. Maybe all politicians lie, but this bunch of cunts have taken it way beyond the next level.

Brexit, by the by, is a ship that has sailed. Those who know me know why I think it was a bad idea, promoted furiously by those who wanted to avoid the incoming new wave of anti tax avoidance laws emanating from the EU and likely to hit our serviced based economy far harder than it would hit Europe. Whether I was right or wrong is a moot point: we’ve left. What follows now is doing the best we can as a nation. We won’t rejoin, because even if we wanted to - and Brexit is now a matter of faith for many, not reason - the EU wouldn’t let us back on the same terms as we had before, with our rebate and our opt-outs. It would be too much of a National humiliation for us to go back in without the advantages we have just thrown away and our national character won’t, in my view, stand for it. Also, even leavers recognise, I think, that even though they won the vote, our society is not a better place for having gone through the experience of the last four years. I expect Starmer to recognise that, and to understand that we can’t tear ourselves apart as a nation the way we have done since the referendum. So we’re out, and for better or for worse, we’re staying out.

I would take Blair/Brown today in a heartbeat. I think Starmer could be effective but he needs to somehow unify the Labour Party. I had a pretty clear idea of what B/B vision for the party was. I have little idea about what Starmers is.

 

[Chris in London]

I would take Blair/Brown today in a heartbeat. I think Starmer could be effective but he needs to somehow unify the Labour Party. I had a pretty clear idea of what B/B vision for the party was. I have little idea about what Starmers is.

like.

as to your last line, that’s why I ask myself whether not being a Tory is, of itself, enough.

one look at Boris Johnson reminds me that it is.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Interesting you mention the policies.

I thought free internet access nationally was an absolutely brilliant policy and would do more for the nation than many other policies put together. Others, eg nationalising companies without compensation, would have been state sponsored theft. Others view it differently.

Labour’s fundamental problem, in my view, was not necessarily the individual policies, but the combination of them. They would have cost a fortune. But that specific policy about free internet for all was I think was absolutely brilliant, and I would applaud any government, even this mob of chancers and liars, that introduced it.

The policy of treating the internet as a utility was a great move .

Bringing back rail as each franchise ended or was surrendered would not have been theft but simply a non renewal. Conservatives have been forced to renationalise a number of lines already as you well know.

But the game changer has been the virus. We have now realised (and Ive always held the view) that essential utilities / functions cannot be outsourced when you have the capability of retaining the production / management and distribution in house.

So things like

production of PPE ... I'll bet it was a surprise when the UK government found out that the largest manufacturer of PPE in the UK was Chinese owned so we weren't going to get a sniff of that.

Management of stockpiles ... being placed in the hands of an American company (who when they realised it was a shit storm quickly sold it to the French)

I hold the same views over

Water (whats the benefit to the UK population of privatisation)

Electricity ( Im with EDF which is a french company , a few years ago they came up with a 15% annual increase , my friends who live in France who are also with EDF WERE GOING BESERK over a 5% increase in the same period)

Gas ... we're probably always going to be reliant on foreign sources for that unless we can tap into Scottish sources.

Transport ... (Whats been the benefit to the UK population of privatisation ? I can get to Ibiza with Ryanair cheaper than I can get to the next village and Id have to walk 3/4 mile to the closest bus stop)

Iron and Steel.. again we have placed our production in the hands of foreign countries who can turn our manufacturing capability and pricing on and off at will. Madness... what happens if we have to produce more army vehicles / ships because we come under attack from a friend of the Chinese and the Chinese then switch the foundries off and walk away with the keys?

etc etc

Im not an advocate of renationalising everything but believe that strategically we have to maintain the ability to produce stuff ourselves

 

[Rascal]

Nay, nay and thrice nay, Russ.

Think back to the Blair/Brown government. For all their faults, they made the lives of the majority of working people better. They did two things in particular: they improved our public services by putting a lot more money into them, and they improved the household incomes of the overwhelming majority of working class families through the tax credits system. Although they never called it that, the introduction of Working Families Tax Credits was pure redistribution of wealth.

Let me remind you of the way the scheme worked. If you were in work and earned less than a certain amount, - about 50k a year from memory, so the overwhelming majority of the working population, you were entitled to a tax credit - a cash payment from the government. There was a relatively modest basic entitlement, which increased for part time workers, single parents, those with disabilities and those needing childcare. The greater the need, the more generous the payment, and unlike previous benefit systems it didn’t penalise returning to work or working. Rather, it encouraged it because you lost only about a third of your benefits for every pound you were over the threshold.

it was no surprise that one of the first acts of the coalition government in 2010 was to reduce massively the value to most families of the tax credit regime. You can argue about whether that was purely a result of the desire to reduce the deficit, or was ideologically driven. Either way, it happened: those receiving the tax credits either lost them completely or saw the payments reduced. The rest is history: you don’t need me to tell you what kind of an impact a decade of austerity has had on the neediest people in our society.

For all that Blair and Brown are criticised by many as being Tory-lite, they have done more for working people in the last forty years than every other leader of the Labour Party put together, and by a vast difference, because they have been in office. I sometimes wonder whether “I’m Not A Tory” is a good enough reason for voting for someone like Starmer. Then I look at the Covid 19 death toll and it reminds me that it is. He might not be as left wing as you’d like, but if he is elected he will achieve a damn sight more to defend working people than Corbyn or Miliband. So if you don’t warm to Starmer, I don’t blame you because that won’t sit well with your principles, and that’s fine. I completely respect that whilst not agreeing. But I do ask that you recognise that he will be better for us as a nation by far than the cretins we have running the show now, and that is perhaps that is reason enough. People are dying, unnecessarily, because of ideological decisions this mob have taken, and they are lying to us about
how many, when and why. Maybe all politicians lie, but this bunch of cunts have taken it way beyond the next level.

Brexit, by the by, is a ship that has sailed. Those who know me know why I think it was a bad idea, promoted furiously by those who wanted to avoid the incoming new wave of anti tax avoidance laws emanating from the EU and likely to hit our serviced based economy far harder than it would hit Europe. Whether I was right or wrong is a moot point: we’ve left. What follows now is doing the best we can as a nation. We won’t rejoin, because even if we wanted to - and Brexit is now a matter of faith for many, not reason - the EU wouldn’t let us back on the same terms as we had before, with our rebate and our opt-outs. It would be too much of a National humiliation for us to go back in without the advantages we have just thrown away and our national character won’t, in my view, stand for it. Also, even leavers recognise, I think, that even though they won the vote, our society is not a better place for having gone through the experience of the last four years. I expect Starmer to recognise that, and to understand that we can’t tear ourselves apart as a nation the way we have done since the referendum. So we’re out, and for better or for worse, we’re staying out.

An eloquent riposte Chris, thank you.

Blair and Brown did do good, I have never doubted that, my issue was they never fulfilled their full potential or use the huge majority they were given to advance the cause even more. I was personally always more a fan of Brown rather than Blair, I saw Brown as an intellectual heavyweight whilst Blair relied on charisma and charm and it was a crying shame when Browns turn came the Labour government was sullied with the war in Iraq. Brown was superb during the financial crisis and his attention detail would have served the nation well during these difficult times, but it was not to be.

I will take the issue of tax credits, they were too easily discredited as "handouts" by the right wing media and I was always of the mind that they could and should have gone further and laid the ground work for UBI, the tax credit system could have evolved into that but sadly didn't. I did take issue though that the anti Union laws introduced by Thatcher et al were never repealed and the use of PFI was a disaster which will haunt every future Labour chancellor for decades. This was done to make Labour look fiscally responsible when they had no need to do so as they had an overwhelming mandate to go much further. This lack of ambition I believe lead to the party losing millions of voters because they failed in their promises or lacked ambition to carry them through. In my opinion Blair promised much but massively underachieved even though as a PM he was probably head and shoulders above any of those that I have witnessed in my lifetime. He was competent, but became arrogant and his followers hark back to times that no longer exist because they had their chance and failed, they failed miserably given the mandate they had and that saddens me. Starmer offers a return to those years and that to me means more years of pandering to the right wing media scared of doing what they should and that lack of hope in a Socialist future hurts because I don't believe he has the bottle or the ideological capacity to carry through an agenda that would make a real difference. Labour works best when it takes the best ideas from the left of the party and the best ideas from the right of the party and makes a cohesive message that attracts both wings of the party, at the moment I only see Starmer wanting to attract those on the right of the party and marginalising those of us on the left.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

At the mo Id take this bloke as the leader of the UK rather than the current muppet in charge

 

[dave_blue12]

Nay, nay and thrice nay, Russ.

Think back to the Blair/Brown government. For all their faults, they made the lives of the majority of working people better. They did two things in particular: they improved our public services by putting a lot more money into them, and they improved the household incomes of the overwhelming majority of working class families through the tax credits system. Although they never called it that, the introduction of Working Families Tax Credits was pure redistribution of wealth.

Let me remind you of the way the scheme worked. If you were in work and earned less than a certain amount, - about 50k a year from memory, so the overwhelming majority of the working population, you were entitled to a tax credit - a cash payment from the government. There was a relatively modest basic entitlement, which increased for part time workers, single parents, those with disabilities and those needing childcare. The greater the need, the more generous the payment, and unlike previous benefit systems it didn’t penalise returning to work or working. Rather, it encouraged it because you lost only about a third of your benefits for every pound you were over the threshold.

it was no surprise that one of the first acts of the coalition government in 2010 was to reduce massively the value to most families of the tax credit regime. You can argue about whether that was purely a result of the desire to reduce the deficit, or was ideologically driven. Either way, it happened: those receiving the tax credits either lost them completely or saw the payments reduced. The rest is history: you don’t need me to tell you what kind of an impact a decade of austerity has had on the neediest people in our society.

For all that Blair and Brown are criticised by many as being Tory-lite, they have done more for working people in the last forty years than every other leader of the Labour Party put together, and by a vast difference, because they have been in office. I sometimes wonder whether “I’m Not A Tory” is a good enough reason for voting for someone like Starmer. Then I look at the Covid 19 death toll and it reminds me that it is. He might not be as left wing as you’d like, but if he is elected he will achieve a damn sight more to defend working people than Corbyn or Miliband. So if you don’t warm to Starmer, I don’t blame you because that won’t sit well with your principles, and that’s fine. I completely respect that whilst not agreeing. But I do ask that you recognise that he will be better for us as a nation by far than the cretins we have running the show now, and that is perhaps that is reason enough. People are dying, unnecessarily, because of ideological decisions this mob have taken, and they are lying to us about
how many, when and why. Maybe all politicians lie, but this bunch of cunts have taken it way beyond the next level.

Brexit, by the by, is a ship that has sailed. Those who know me know why I think it was a bad idea, promoted furiously by those who wanted to avoid the incoming new wave of anti tax avoidance laws emanating from the EU and likely to hit our serviced based economy far harder than it would hit Europe. Whether I was right or wrong is a moot point: we’ve left. What follows now is doing the best we can as a nation. We won’t rejoin, because even if we wanted to - and Brexit is now a matter of faith for many, not reason - the EU wouldn’t let us back on the same terms as we had before, with our rebate and our opt-outs. It would be too much of a National humiliation for us to go back in without the advantages we have just thrown away and our national character won’t, in my view, stand for it. Also, even leavers recognise, I think, that even though they won the vote, our society is not a better place for having gone through the experience of the last four years. I expect Starmer to recognise that, and to understand that we can’t tear ourselves apart as a nation the way we have done since the referendum. So we’re out, and for better or for worse, we’re staying out.

I agree with every word except perhaps the EU aspect. If this country ends up on its knees then re-entry may look extremely attractive to the majority. However, that is for a future as yet unknown.

The essence of what you describe is pragmatism versus ideology. We need more pragmatism, idealogues of any ilk are dangerous in my view. They are more concerned with imposing their vision than with the practicalities of how the country is impacted.

We currently have a Government of right wing idealogues and I did not want the left wing version headed by Corbyn, though I consider Corbyn to be lass dangerous. For the record I don't consider Johnson himself to be an idealogue, he is an opportunist.

The Labour Governments of Blair and Brown were in my view largely pragmatic. Of course ideology played its part but as ever nothing is black and white but positions on a scale.

We need more pragmatism, less ideology. Policies that work for everyone.

 

[The perfect fumble]

An eloquent riposte Chris, thank you.

Blair and Brown did do good, I have never doubted that, my issue was they never fulfilled their full potential or use the huge majority they were given to advance the cause even more. I was personally always more a fan of Brown rather than Blair, I saw Brown as an intellectual heavyweight whilst Blair relied on charisma and charm and it was a crying shame when Browns turn came the Labour government was sullied with the war in Iraq. Brown was superb during the financial crisis and his attention detail would have served the nation well during these difficult times, but it was not to be.

I will take the issue of tax credits, they were too easily discredited as "handouts" by the right wing media and I was always of the mind that they could and should have gone further and laid the ground work for UBI, the tax credit system could have evolved into that but sadly didn't. I did take issue though that the anti Union laws introduced by Thatcher et al were never repealed and the use of PFI was a disaster which will haunt every future Labour chancellor for decades. This was done to make Labour look fiscally responsible when they had no need to do so as they had an overwhelming mandate to go much further. This lack of ambition I believe lead to the party losing millions of voters because they failed in their promises or lacked ambition to carry them through. In my opinion Blair promised much but massively underachieved even though as a PM he was probably head and shoulders above any of those that I have witnessed in my lifetime. He was competent, but became arrogant and his followers hark back to times that no longer exist because they had their chance and failed, they failed miserably given the mandate they had and that saddens me. Starmer offers a return to those years and that to me means more years of pandering to the right wing media scared of doing what they should and that lack of hope in a Socialist future hurts because I don't believe he has the bottle or the ideological capacity to carry through an agenda that would make a real difference. Labour works best when it takes the best ideas from the left of the party and the best ideas from the right of the party and makes a cohesive message that attracts both wings of the party, at the moment I only see Starmer wanting to attract those on the right of the party and marginalising those of us on the left.

Mate, there's no left in the Third Way.

The Third Way is economically conservative, socially liberal.....Fuck it! It's the Tories with a smile.

It's what the electorate want, but how to give it to them?

They've had the SDP, the Lib Dems, Change UK, all dead in the water.

The only way to win with this bollocks, was to destroy the Labour Party in order to save it, at least that's what they cooked up at Granita. A party gutted and re-fashioned as bright shiny New Labour and when New Labour folded under the weight of its contradictions, (that it's nothing more than "nice" Tory in Labour clothing) it was essential that the Labour Party did not reassert itself, and if it did, then New Labour "moderates" must do everything in their power to kill it with the help of their natural allies the Tory press.

So it's bye bye Corbyn, bye bye mass membership party, bye bye state intervention, but it's also bye bye New Labour! No need to make a fuss, just call yourself moderates, do the bosses bidding, throw a few crumbs off the table, then it's well paid sinecures when you retire and jobs a good un.

Broad church? Just the name of the f**king shop.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I think we saw the future PM yesterday. Rishi Sunack. The only blot on his copybook for me was him towing the cabinet line over the defence of Cummings. Aside from that he has been the stand out government performer.

He’s come across very well in the main. Seems intelligent, capable and empathetic.

But it’s easy to come across as empathetic when you’re doling out hundreds of billions in furlough and grants.

The real test of a chancellor is not just in the spending, but in how you pay for it, that is yet to be seen.

He’s an excellent speaker reading from a script, but he doesn’t look nearly as comfortable when asked questions and has to think on his feet.

One to watch.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

He’s come across very well in the main. Seems intelligent, capable and empathetic.

But it’s easy to come across as empathetic when you’re doling out hundreds of billions in furlough and grants.

The real test of a chancellor is not just in the spending, but in how you pay for it, that is yet to be seen.

He’s an excellent speaker reading from a script, but he doesn’t look nearly as comfortable when asked questions and has to think on his feet.

One to watch.

As we are not linked to the Gold Standard anymore and are a fiat currency system ... You print money .... pump it into the economy and then control inflation..... no one else can lend us Sterling ... stop thinking that running a country is like running a household


We've been doing this for years....

 

[Shaelumstash]

As we are not linked to the Gold Standard anymore and are a fiat currency system ... You print money .... pump it into the economy and then control inflation..... no one else can lend us Sterling ... stop thinking that running a country is like running a household


We've been doing this for years....

Haha! Thanks for the GCSE economics lesson, I know how quantitive easing works, but thanks for the heads up.

Stop thinking a Tory government is going to run a budget like John McDonnell would.

They’re eventually going to try to deal with the budget deficit whether by cutting future spending or increasing taxes. Or both.

My point wasn’t that this stimulus package was a bad idea. It’s the right decision. Arguably the only decision.

My point was it’s easy to suck Sunak’s dick when he’s dishing money out. But I’m going to keep my mouth empty until we find out how he’s going to claw this money back. And the Tories will try to claw it back. Trust me.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

He’s come across very well in the main. Seems intelligent, capable and empathetic.

But it’s easy to come across as empathetic when you’re doling out hundreds of billions in furlough and grants.

The real test of a chancellor is not just in the spending, but in how you pay for it, that is yet to be seen.

He’s an excellent speaker reading from a script, but he doesn’t look nearly as comfortable when asked questions and has to think on his feet.

One to watch.

Agree with a lot of that.

 

[west didsblue]

Haha! Thanks for the GCSE economics lesson, I know how quantitive easing works, but thanks for the heads up.

Stop thinking a Tory government is going to run a budget like John McDonnell would.

They’re eventually going to try to deal with the budget deficit whether by cutting future spending or increasing taxes. Or both.

My point wasn’t that this stimulus package was a bad idea. It’s the right decision. Arguably the only decision.

My point was it’s easy to suck Sunak’s dick when he’s dishing money out. But I’m going to keep my mouth empty until we find out how he’s going to claw this money back. And the Tories will try to claw it back. Trust me.

The problem is, because of the gross mishandling of the pandemic by our government, it’s going to cost us more than any other country as a proportion of GDP. If we don’t claw back some of this cost it will leave us at a huge disadvantage against our competitors whose pandemic response was better and consequently cost less.

 

[Shaelumstash]

The problem is, because of the gross mishandling of the pandemic by our government, it’s going to cost us more than any other country as a proportion of GDP. If we don’t claw back some of this cost it will leave us at a huge disadvantage against our competitors whose pandemic response was better and consequently cost less.

Completely agree.

Also could the timing be any worse for us to be trying to negotiate new trade deals all over the world?

Clearly delaying Brexit would be by far the best decision economically. But the zealots would rather us get a diabolical trade deals now just to Get. Brexit. Done this year at any cost. Crazy times.