Gabriel
Well-Known Member
Yes, you're quite right. I was only thinking of landmark outside examples.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors
- Thread starter Trevor Morley's Tache
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Yes, you're quite right. I was only thinking of landmark outside examples.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
The problem is theres almost no such thing as a good cop.
How many cases of illegal police violence have we seen in the past 3 days? Driving SUVs into a crowd, deliverately trampling someone with your horse, firing at people in their property, deliberately firing at journalists, arresting them with no cause, a cop fired tear gas into someone's house in Virginia because he got taunted.
Sure thats a minuscule number of the police on the streets in the last 2 nights but where are the good cops reporting these bad cops and bringing them to justice? Where are the good cops stopping their colleagues in these videos? They're just watching if not joining in.
Why did the entire precinct Derek Chauvin belonged to go and surround his house - against orders because theyd already assigned a small army to protect him? Good cops dont go and show support for murderous cops.
Theres some good people who are cops in that country, but very few of them are actually good cops who will bring the rogue cops to justice.
Eerily similar comments from Jimmy about this visual shot...
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Then you get the good moments
There's a time and place for this and that's when this has all died down and the people start crossing bridges after justice has been served, at least, for George Floyd.
This well meaning kid will have undermined his own cause right now.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
So it’s ok to riot now? to burn down local shops and smash up community centres?? For every protest or cause?
can you explain how that helps them right now?
“if you're turned off the protests for racial equality in America because some buildings get looted then you never really cared.”
That’s a pretty sweeping statement. I can care or someone else can care about racial equality without wanting mass rioting or buildings set on fire. I’m sure most people who live in the areas affected dont want to see their community shops being burned down
It's amazing how this has been explained so many times that someone has to ask the same question again!
Do you understand what a 'tipping point' is or not...?
Bigga
Well-Known Member
4 months away from the election these protests/riots could have a really impact if they keep up the momentum and dont swing so far out of control that the message is lost.
Trump and Bill Barr have cancelled and repealed 8 years worth of police reform policies and Sanders, whose campaigners are now absorbed into Bidens policy task forces, was the only candidate who had a really tangible solid policy on police reform that I'm pretty sure Biden will be happy enough to use in a few weeks time when it's not so overt a strategy to win votes.
4 months is not a lot of time for that anger to turn into apathy, especially with the virus ongoing and 40 million unemployed.
But, wait! Some will scream in your face "Vote Blue, no matter who!" and not see the problem that nothing has changed, fundamentally, for equality in decades of civil rights activation! The GOP or Dems have done things so incrementally and told people 'we got you next time' that this was going to happen!
You can't kick the equality can down the road indefinitely!
Scottyboi
Well-Known Member
Lol
Barcon
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree. I don’t want to see this.
BUT the black injustice simply couldn’t continue any longer - this has been coming for a long time - the murder of George Floyd was the final straw
A sad as it is mate, we'll all be saying this the next time it happens, and the time after that etc.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
again sweeping statements. Never said I cared more about bricks and mortar either... you can care about the community/ local shops and also care about ending police brutality. It’s not either or
one of the most powerful protests in the uk were the Iraq war protests. One of The largest ones had no looting or mass rioting. robbing a shop isn’t going to change a thing in my opinion
next time there’s corruption or anything similar in the uk let’s all go to our community centres. Shops, business’s and burn them down ...
You're talking about a COMPLETELY separate subject!!
Iraq was about an unnecessary war on other soil.
The US are talking about the unspoken war on their own people!
But, wait! Some will scream in your face "Vote Blue, no matter who!" and not see the problem that nothing has changed, fundamentally, for equality in decades of civil rights activation! The GOP or Dems have done things so incrementally and told people 'we got you next time' that this was going to happen!
You can't kick the equality can down the road indefinitely!
The problem is that the Democrats bring in changes which the next republican then repeals.
This article pretty thoroughly details all of the Obama police reform policies that Trump with Sessions and Barr's help has destroyed.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...rotests_n_5ed11aa0c5b6228cdfe1b4cf?ri18n=true
As an outsider, it seems to me that part of the problem is the lack or failure of a mechanism to bring about change. The vast majority would support measures to convert police forces to genuine 'protect and serve' institutions. But policing has becoms highly politicised. The right want enforcement and are willing to pay the cost that comes with force protection policies. The left, well what? They want to enforce people's rights certainly, but even where they are in power, they seem reluctant to take measures.I dont know if it's an american news thing, but the way that people talk around riots and instantly think they cant support them or it ruins a cause is really funny for a country whose independence started with a riot in Boston harbour. It's like as soon as some violence happens at a demonstration it's all gone too far.
People have been peacefully protesting this for 50 years and gotten nowhere, obviously they are going to resort to rioting. Go read MLKs beyond Vietnam or the other america speeches and he sums it up well.
The stamp tax riots, Boston tea party caused american independence. Washington DC exists because of the Pennsylvania mutiny, the Detroit riots changed policing for the better, stonewall riots massively advanced the LGBT cause, the Rodney King riots caused genuine change in LA policing even if it didnt go far enough.
It's a country built by riots with a history of rioting advancing causes, and yet people start clutching pearls when a Walmart catches fire.
Obviously no one wants people to get hurt, and it would be great if they could focus their anger towards the Targets and dollar stores instead of little mom and pop cornershops who will be effected for a long time, but ultimately if you're turned off the protests for racial equality in America because some buildings get looted then you never really cared.
Here in the UK, there was a sliding doors moment in the Lawrence case, when McPherson branded the met police as 'institutionally racist'. Personally, I was dubious at the time, but the acceptance of the concept has made a massive difference to all areas of our society from policing to employment. Much still to be done, of course, but we continue to try and improve.Both left and fight support reform moves. I don't detect the same movement in the US., so we have police brutality, riots, crackdown, rinse and repeat.
Am I wrong?
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Forgetting everything - Maybe America, the president, the governors and certain Police states in America now know that the next time a Police guy unjustifiably murders a black guy without reasonable charge - they won’t be met with peaceful protests - they will be met with complete chaos, anarchy, rioting and looting.
the ball is in the court of the America police to not tread this line
No, the police can't police themselves. It's not even in the court of the politicians that have allowed police to exact open warfare at times.
It's in the court of the people that vote in the same kind of politician, year in, year out cos that's what they're told by the establishment of the parties, who frame this to the MSM. The middle and upper class that want to maintain the status quo cos their bank balance looks good, even if the politician in front of them is a shit heel. The older Black demographic that keeps hoping the Democrats do something for them, this time, maybe...
The apathy of the voter who thinks, these politicians don't represent me as nothing ever changes.
No, it's in the court of the people at the ballot box to truly force change and make the US the truly 'great' country it promised to be.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Aww, thanks, girlBob!
I think what makes me hesitate is watching my wife's head always cranked down to her phone as she peruses FB.
I don't wanna be that guy!
So, I tend to dip my foot in and out of tw@er by googling incidents and reading the threads.
If you are going to sign up, don't do what a lot of people do, and just follow the people you like and already agree with you broadly speaking. I did it that way, thinking why would I want to pollute my timeline with nonsense I vehemently disagree with but as it turns out, I ended up creating a bubble and an echo chamber if you will, and thus always being shocked to the core to find that people vehemently opposed ideas that I considered completely logical and reasonable, and held positions that I found to be utterly vulgar.
So now I follow just enough right leaning people to keep up with the crazy ideas that gaining traction.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
If you are going to sign up, don't do what a lot of people do, and just follow the people you like and already agree with you broadly speaking. I did it that way, thinking why would I want to pollute my timeline with nonsense I vehemently disagree with but as it turns out, I ended up creating a bubble and an echo chamber if you will, and thus always being shocked to the core to find that people vehemently opposed ideas that I considered completely logical and reasonable, and held positions that I found to be utterly vulgar.
So now I follow just enough right leaning people to keep up with the crazy ideas that gaining traction.
Interesting!
I really haven't decided on it yet! I was more convinced I would, earlier... And then I thought about how long I would last on it. All the noise pollution, the nonsense, the uselessness of the majority of it.
FB lasted... 48hrs at most!
BosnianBlue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 20 Jan 2019
- Messages
- 4,003
- Team supported
- City
A sad as it is mate, we'll all be saying this the next time it happens, and the time after that etc.
We will, as this is still a bit of lemonade riots and won't change a lot, will be forgotten in some time. It's good step and first one of resistance, but won't cause the real big change. But as long as the reaction is even stronger and yes, more violent, next time(s), one of those will be the real last straw. Either the oppressors will see they can't go the same way forever as other side strikes back, or they will go to full open oppression and then everybody will know what's going on and someone will need to win the final fight.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
The problem is that the Democrats bring in changes which the next republican then repeals.
This article pretty thoroughly details all of the Obama police reform policies that Trump with Sessions and Barr's help has destroyed.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...rotests_n_5ed11aa0c5b6228cdfe1b4cf?ri18n=true
Sorry I missed this!
I understand Obama's stuff has been repealed, but that has nothing to do with Obama militarising police forces with superior weaponry when he was in charge as @mat reminded me. It has nothing to do with the amount of Black deaths under Obama's watch and did no forced reform changes at the time.
What he did, or tried to do, was too little too late.
Sorry I missed this!
I understand Obama's stuff has been repealed, but that has nothing to do with Obama militarising police forces with superior weaponry when he was in charge as @mat reminded me. It has nothing to do with the amount of Black deaths under Obama's watch and did no forced reform changes at the time.
What he did, or tried to do, was too little too late.
He enacted genuine change, it just always takes a few years to come into effect, and he was working against a Republican controlled House and Senate that publicly bragged about how they were going to just time him out of office.
There's an article discussing his reforms in 2016 here after another police shooting.
https://time.com/4398392/obama-police-reform-report-task-force-on-21st-century-policing/
There's a reason that the Minnesota police union chief took to the stage at a Trump rally last year and said -
“The Obama administration and the handcuffing and oppression of police was despicable,” Kroll said, an apparent reference to post-Ferguson investigations in cities with ling histories of police brutality and killings that had led to a series of Justice Department consent decrees. “The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around — he decided to start let cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of [on] us.”
It's not because Obama and Trump are the same.
Last edited:
Interesting!
I really haven't decided on it yet! I was more convinced I would, earlier... And then I thought about how long I would last on it. All the noise pollution, the nonsense, the uselessness of the majority of it.
FB lasted... 48hrs at most!
To be fair, initially I just followed and interacted with foorball fans, Chelsea fans mostly, but I became more politically aware/active as time went on. It was also in the early days of Twitter, nearly a decade ago.
If I was signing up now, knowing full well what social media can be like, I'd be more prepared to separate the fact from the nonsense.
That's horrible to hear mate, sorry about that. Do you know if your aunt or most shop owners in America will have insurance for this sort of thing? I'm not sure how it works.I just got word that my aunt's shop, her pride and joy that she started 15 years ago, in Minneapolis is among the many properties that have been burned to ashes.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.