George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

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Man_City_Loyal said:
He has labelled them a terror organisation, but they are not officially classed as a terrorist group.
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Okay so I'll let you compare them to other non-terrorist organisations I listed earlier such as Identity Evropa, the National Socialist Movement and the Ku Klux Klan.

This is your stage to tell us all how Antifa are just as bad...
 
inbetween said:
Much of the protest and virtue signalling we have seen is dominated by the left who are stealing the real issue of racism to frame a narrative against Trump. Trump doesn't help himself in his response of course but he isn't at fault for what has happened in the US for centuries.

This exact same problem was a feature of the Obama presidency but we never saw the political left and ANTIFA types marching on the White House. The only difference with Obama is he probably supported the cause yet the fact is like this president and every before him, he did nothing about it.

Also, an argument on capitalism shows how silly this is. There are countries with capitalist systems that have no problem with racism. There are socialist countries and communist countries that have problems with racism, the Latin and Eastern countries being a prime example.

Racism is a product of culture. The only way to delete racism is to change the culture of how black people are stereotyped and viewed in society. I think more positive things have been done on that in the last 50 years than at anytime in history.

All of that has been achieved in the west by celebrating a free society, a free government and a predominately free system where people are free to make their own choices.

The current expression on the streets to some degree is celebrating the opposite, instead using a genuine issue to force a narrative on forcing a system of government aligned to a specific groups views.
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I don’t necessarily agree that you need to have leanings too far to the left to motivate yourself onto the streets in this case but I would agree that for many it is as much an opportunity to protest against Trump.
Not necessarily so for the likes of the police however.
The sentiment of my post is not decrying capitalism per se, either.
We are all capitalists. We are all consumers and we want what we want as cheaply as we can get it.
There was already a thread on whether Western Democracy is fit for purpose Let’s face it when you look at the alternatives, you would rank it highly in the choices available.

However any form of socialism seems to be a dirty word in America.
There seems to be a perverse dogma that the markets dictate and nothing should stand in the way of business even when business is operating solely for increased profit and has bought government.

Democracy is marvellous but government is supposed to have checks and balances in place to ensure nobody has the power to run roughshod through their constitution.

If these people are motivated to come out against Trump, it is as much to do about what they see him doing, abusing the system and dismantling their safeguards.
Racism is institutionalised in the US.
It is elsewhere also, as you have pointed out.
It is part of the system and people see Trump as going out of his way to protect the elements that keep it that way rather than addressing the change that is required.
You are right he didn’t cause racism in America and those before him changed nothing in the system either.

He is however racist and having a president that is openly so, doesn’t sit well with most with whom the injustice doesn’t sit well.
They do see him pander to far right and treat the far left as terrorists.

Saying the left are using the demonstrations to attack him or perhaps the establishment is not entirely incorrect in my view, as I said I would not regard the bulk of anti-Trump sentiment on show as being exactly left leaning.
And Trump himself uses things like this as a distraction from the real issues as we saw at that church the other night.
He orchestrated the whole riot rather than protest thing.
He encourages it because it suits his narrative. He is more to blame for false narrative in America over the last four years than anyone marching in the last week whatever their motivation.

For real change though, how many of the virtue signallers as you call them, will actually be doing anything constructive in the background, once this has died down and been replaced in the news by something else.

That’s the problem. The system will still be there. Trump will still be pushing his narrative, removing civil rights more likely than protecting them.
 
Bigga said:
It's deep entrenched neolib thinking, similar to having a syringe on tap into their arms.

They think they can't exist off capitalism in the form it is today.

It's completely nuts to not want to coexist in a better balanced society.

There are kids out in the protests holding up banners to DE-FUND the militarisation of the police and prop up schooling!

I can't get my head around this not being acceptable, myself.
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The reason why some find it unacceptable is because they aren't exposed enough to Bernie's message, so they're walking around thinking he's some extreme radical lefty loony communist. The media tells them one version of his policies, not a very flattering one, and that's the narrative they know, so when you meet one and ask them about Bernie's universal healthcare plans, they immediately ask 'well how is he going to pay for it?', essentially parroting CNN pundits, as if the military budget doesn't get a multi-million dollar increases every single year, despite the fact America already spends more on military than the next TEN (!!!) countries combined and nobody ever asks how they can afford that.

They've managed to convince voters that somehow any socialist programme or policy is going to be so impossibly expensive that it'll eventually tank the economy and they'll end up losing their jobs.
 
Bazzmand Show said:
Check out the '13th' on Netflix, it gives a good bit of background as to why people like Sanders (and people like Corbyn) have struggled. A lot of it has to do with politics from the 80s, which is still entrenched in a lot of peoples minds.

Very frustrating that we cannot seem pull ourselves out of the tar pit that is capitalism and try work towards something new.
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It's one of the best documentaries out there, if one is interested in understanding some of America's history and how they wound up with the society they've got today.
 
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Vialli98 said:
The reason why some find it unacceptable is because they aren't exposed enough to Bernie's message, so they're walking around thinking he's some extreme radical lefty loony communist. The media tells them one version of his policies, not a very flattering one, and that's the narrative they know, so when you meet one and ask them about Bernie's universal healthcare plans, they immediately ask 'well how is he going to pay for it?', essentially parroting CNN pundits, as if the military budget doesn't get a multi-million dollar increases every single year, despite the fact America already spends more on military than the next TEN (!!!) countries combined and nobody ever asks how they can afford that.

They've managed to convince voters that somehow any socialist programme or policy is going to be so impossibly expensive that it'll eventually tank the economy and they'll end up losing their jobs.
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Exactly! All true!

The thing is, as well, we have posters on here that perpetuate the very same parroted talking points from the MSM because it suites their life style, fuck everyone else! In fact, I was accused of not caring about people because it was better to get the dude out of the White House and insert someone who enacts incrementalism again and deal with societal problems NEXT TIME! All while congress have used trillions of dollars to bailout big companies that thrive on capitalism!! It's AMAZING irony!!

You should check the Biden thread out; it's full of them!

I was told what I was wanting for the American people was 'not realistic', "pie-in-the-sky" and "nobody gives a fuck what young people want!"!! It's all in there! They're all willing to lay the problems at the Orange Turd's door, but not willing to look back at the beaten pathway!

They still have the audacity to say the riots are the fault of one man only and any other POV is in support of him!

What a sick joke that is!
 
What happened to the guy in the States needs calling out, no question about that.

At the moment we are far from out of the woods regarding the covid crisis. Yet again we see 1000s gathering in this country to protest, quite possibly in doing so putting 1000s more lives many from bame communities at risk. That for me is not acceptable, this did not happen in this country.

Why is the government allowing this to take place whilst no other form of gathering of such a size would be tolerated?

As for America I dread to think what the covid consequences will be from what is going on over there. One life very wrongly lost should not lead to many thousands of innocent lives being put at risk. I like the Americans overall regardless of colour, though I like orange ones less than any other colour, but that liking does not extend to having my country put in danger because of what happened.
 
Bigga said:
Exactly! All true!

The thing is, as well, we have posters on here that perpetuate the very same parroted talking points from the MSM because it suites their life style, fuck everyone else! In fact, I was accused of not caring about people because it was better to get the dude out of the White House and insert someone who enacts incrementalism again and deal with societal problems NEXT TIME! All while congress have used trillions of dollars to bailout big companies that thrive on capitalism!! It's AMAZING irony!!

You should check the Biden thread out; it's full of them!

I was told what I was wanting for the American people was 'not realistic', "pie-in-the-sky" and "nobody gives a fuck what young people want!"!! It's all in there! They're all willing to lay the problems at the Orange Turd's door, but not willing to look back at the beaten pathway!

They still have the audacity to say the riots are the fault of one man only and any other POV is in support of him!

What a sick joke that is!
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Yeah it can get quite frustrating. If I was an American, I probably would be a political activist or community organiser of some sort because I genuinely believe the public is being robbed of things that should really be fundamental rights.

I can understand the 'unrealistic, pie in the sky' comments if they're referring to the current political set up and how difficult it would be to implement unpopular ideas (among the lawmakers, not the public) when powerful people are fighting you at every turn, irrespective of how well meaning someone like Bernie might be. The policies themselves are anything but unrealistic. I understand it though, but I'd still rather have a strong progressive who will aggressively pursue his policy ideas once in office rather than literally anyone else - sadly the progressive base will need to find someone new to hang their hopes on now.
 
I see the Guardian have finally and quietly amended their Anthony Grainger article where they claimed he was black.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...olice-misconduct-case-over-shooting-collapses

What a totally incendiary thing to lie about. I'm strongly against Government interference with newspapers but the way papers like The Guardian and others have acted over the past few years (across all parts of the political spectrum) has been a disgrace.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Sly knee on the neck there at the start, and a shifty look over the shoulder to make sure nobody is watching.

Not really sure this is 'protect and serve' though.

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He had a good look round to see who was watching before laying into him with his knees. Must of missed the person filming them thankfully.
 
SWP's back said:
I’m 38, this has been said by people like you every year I’ve been alive. The Tories have been in power for all but 13/14 years of that time and it hasn’t happened. Nor will it.

Give it up for fucks sake.
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There has always been a "Tory's will privatise the NHS" thread throughout politcs, they certainly have ( in real terms ) reduced it since austerity ( 250k beds vs 140k now etc etc ) and parts have been privatised, but I have never believed the Tory's would fully privatise it... Until this year. in terms of actually selling off the NHS. We've never been in this situation before. with Brexit we are going to be in a very tricky place. if we want a trade deal with the USA then the NHS will be on the table whether we like it or not. It was part of TTIP when they were dealing with a trading partner larger than them. we may have had the power to stop them as part of the EU but on our own is a whole different ball game,
 
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