Another new Brexit thread

[Vic]

But it wont be calamitous.
Indeed, the money required to restart the UK economy from Covid-19 totally dwarfs the costs of restructuring UK tax, investment and market rules to deal with Brexit.
There is zero point in spending a fortune to restart the economy without also dealing with Brexit at reduced cost.

It's the government spending a fortune on Covid. It will be businesses going bust to deal with Brexit.

 

[BlueAnorak]

It's the government spending a fortune on Covid. It will be businesses going bust to deal with Brexit.

Businesses will be going bust everywhere thanks to lockdown.
Less so if we have full control of our own economy.
To not have full control over our response would be more catastrophic as many Euro nations are already finding out.

 

[Vic]

It says the UK is willing to accept tariffs on certain goods to remove the EU's demand for a level playing field.
What's the problem with that?
It seems perfectly acceptable to me.

It's late and I'm tired, but what's in it for the EU?

They give up the demand for the LPF and in return we agree to some tariffs being levied on exports. Whereas if there's no deal, we don't have the LPF and we face tariffs on all exports to the EU.

 

[Vic]

Businesses will be going bust everywhere thanks to lockdown.
Less so if we have full control of our own economy.
To not have full control over our response would be more catastrophic as many Euro nations are already finding out.

Why would we want our present government to have full control over anything?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Why would we want our present government to have full control over anything?

Because we elected them? No, I didn't vote for them either, but we have to accept that the majority did and get behind them/hope for the best or democracy doesn't work.

 

[BlueAnorak]

It's late and I'm tired, but what's in it for the EU?

They give up the demand for the LPF and in return we agree to some tariffs being levied on exports. Whereas if there's no deal, we don't have the LPF and we face tariffs on all exports to the EU.

What's in it for the EU? Their so called problems with a level playing field go away.
They won't of course as negotiations are all a sham with the intention of either making the UK subordinate or punishing the UK. Neither will happen of course as no trade deal will be OK for us.
The EU could have had the deal.of there dreams with May but instead they wanted humiliation.

 

[Saddleworth2]

But it wont be calamitous.
Indeed, the money required to restart the UK economy from Covid-19 totally dwarfs the costs of restructuring UK tax, investment and market rules to deal with Brexit.
There is zero point in spending a fortune to restart the economy without also dealing with Brexit at reduced cost.

It depends on the level of disruption as well as the financial cost.

 

[Vic]

Because we elected them? No, I didn't vote for them either, but we have to accept that the majority did and get behind them/hope for the best or democracy doesn't work.

The majority didn't so maybe democracy isn't working.

I'm afraid "hope for the best" - in recovery from a pandemic which is a lot worse because of the government we "elected" - doesn't seem a strong option compared to being part of a pan-European response (especially as the Bank of England will be doing much the same as the ECB to fund it).

 

[Vic]

But it wont be calamitous.
Indeed, the money required to restart the UK economy from Covid-19 totally dwarfs the costs of restructuring UK tax, investment and market rules to deal with Brexit.
There is zero point in spending a fortune to restart the economy without also dealing with Brexit at reduced cost.

Anyone understand this?

 

[west didsblue]

Businesses will be going bust everywhere thanks to lockdown.
Less so if we have full control of our own economy.
To not have full control over our response would be more catastrophic as many Euro nations are already finding out.

Yep, our world beating response might not have been so successful had we still been members.

 

[Vic]

What's in it for the EU? Their so called problems with a level playing field go away.
They won't of course as negotiations are all a sham with the intention of either making the UK subordinate or punishing the UK. Neither will happen of course as no trade deal will be OK for us.
The EU could have had the deal.of there dreams with May but instead they wanted humiliation.

I still don't get it. How does the EU's problem with wanting LPF go away? Johnson accepts tariffs we'd pay anyway without a deal and for that the EU gives up on LPF?

It wasn't the EU that rejected May's deal. Johnson led her humiliation.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It's late and I'm tired, but what's in it for the EU?

They give up the demand for the LPF and in return we agree to some tariffs being levied on exports. Whereas if there's no deal, we don't have the LPF and we face tariffs on all exports to the EU.

The LPF covers a multitude of things. I would be very surprised if the EU gave up all of them.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I still don't get it. How does the EU's problem with wanting LPF go away? Johnson accepts tariffs we'd pay anyway without a deal and for that the EU gives up on LPF?

It wasn't the EU that rejected May's deal. Johnson led her humiliation.

The last part of your response is just your imaginings as May's so called deal was complete subservience.
As to the first bit, the UK's negotiating position is based on trade deal clauses in existing EU trade deals - so nothing has been asked for that doesn't exist in existing EU trade deals.
In other EU trade deals where a demand for a level playing field doesn't exist, some goods still incur tariffs as a result.

 

[blueinsa]

The majority didn't so maybe democracy isn't working.

Had Labour won they too would not have commanded a majority of votes cast but you know what? Any argument telling you this would have seen you rejecting it and I'm 100% certain you would not be constantly mentioning it either.

The electorate delivered a 80 seat majority and mandate to the Tories it is that simple and I am one for ripping up the system and going with PR because the big 2, Tories and Labour have had it all their own way for far too long and it's time all votes counted.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Incidently, any business that relies on truck journeys between point A in the EU and point B in the EU needs to plan to move to transit via a container port.
Delivery times may be slightly longer, but customs transit is a much quicker and is a more reliable method of goods delivery. It is also far better for the environment and removes the problem of any Dover/Calais log Jam.
It is a one off cost hit allowing for the slightly increased journey time with more stock in transit.

 

[Vic]

Had Labour won they too would not have commanded a majority of votes cast but you know what? Any argument telling you this would have seen you rejecting it and I'm 100% certain you would not be constantly mentioning it either.

The electorate delivered a 80 seat majority and mandate to the Tories it is that simple and I am one for ripping up the system and going with PR because the big 2, Tories and Labour have had it all their own way for far too long and it's time all votes counted.

As it happens there's a prog on Radio 4 now about this: looking at Hobbs' Leviathan. "Start the Week: Our coercive politics" https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jvqp

Can we really give one person dictatorial power (on a minority vote) and just hand over power over life and death (ours) to that person? It's from another battle but really - Protest and Survive.

I can understand now why the Chartists wanted annual parliaments (the only one of their demands never met).

Getting away from the topic somewhat, but if the million who marched against the Iraq War had not been peaceful (i.e. a violent protest to stop a war), would the war have happened? And then this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[Vic]

Incidently, any business that relies on truck journeys between point A in the EU and point B in the EU needs to plan to move to transit via a container port.
Delivery times may be slightly longer, but customs transit is a much quicker and is a more reliable method of goods delivery. It is also far better for the environment and removes the problem of any Dover/Calais log Jam.
It is a one off cost hit allowing for the slightly increased journey time with more stock in transit.

I think most stuff that can readily come in a container already does, for the reasons you state.

Do you think containers are exempt from the customs checks that will be needed? I know of one importer of white goods that has increased warehousing here as they expect a long queue of ships into Felixstowe, and I assume they're not alone.

 

[Vic]

The last part of your response is just your imaginings as May's so called deal was complete subservience.
As to the first bit, the UK's negotiating position is based on trade deal clauses in existing EU trade deals - so nothing has been asked for that doesn't exist in existing EU trade deals.
In other EU trade deals where a demand for a level playing field doesn't exist, some goods still incur tariffs as a result.

Either you're missing the point or (quite possibly) I am.

What deals we want is irrelevant to this story. It's presented as if we were offering the EU something they want - but it would get rid of the LPF which they do want, and our "concession" is to say we'd accept tariffs that we'd have to accept anyway.

 

[BobKowalski]

BBC and FT doing a lot of interesting stuff on supply lines, customs and pharma.

Pandemic has depleted our ‘no deal’ medicine stockpile and we need to start building now or make sure a deal is in place with the EU

 

[BobKowalski]

And on supply lines and customs Dover is a problem...