Death

It's probably the same for everyone but the death of loved ones frightens me far more than my own death. I got a phone call out of nowhere 2 years ago to say my dad had a heart attack. He was only 56 at the time and thankfully survived but to this day I still panic at unexpected phone calls from home. I got a call from my mum last week and my heart started to race and my palms were sweating. But she was only calling to say thanks for something I sent them in the post. In that moment i'd completely forgot I even sent them something.
 
Ban-jani said:
The perception is now maximalist among the majority of scholars of all beliefs, meaning they think the Gospels are accurate (not necessarily the claims but what happened to him).

The minimalist view was that he existed but the Gospels were made up to fit a narrative, which only a tiny minority of scholars now believe, Price being one.

They’ve found church’s less than 300 years after his death, 1000s of miles away, it spread too quickly for nothing to have happened and they have uncovered areas where they they think the crucifixion and burial happened.

I’m not trying to tell you to believe in it, just that a man called Jesus existed, claimed to be the Son of God and died via crucifixion due to blasphemy.
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Remember there are at least ten gospels of which only four fit the narrative the RC church wanted to promote.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
Remember there are at least ten gospels of which only four fit the narrative the RC church wanted to promote.
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Absolutely mate.

My Christian friend who’s not a Catholic (or Protestant) would argue you have to make compare the 4 main ones, with the others and reach a consensus in your own opinion.
 
As you're post regarding the death clock is at the mo on page two, is their something you want, need to tell us ? Just asking.
 
nimrod said:
Death, do you ever think about it or is it a taboo subject, are you scared of it, do you believe there is an afterlife ?
Do you think we are born again, or enter into heaven ?

I don't know how many people on here have had a general anaesthetic, I have, and I imagine dying is a bit like that ie nothing.
Just like before you were born.
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God is a concept by which we measure our own pain.......!
 
Ban-jani said:
The perception is now maximalist among the majority of scholars of all beliefs, meaning they think the Gospels are accurate (not necessarily the claims but what happened to him).

The minimalist view was that he existed but the Gospels were made up to fit a narrative, which only a tiny minority of scholars now believe, Price being one.

They’ve found church’s less than 300 years after his death, 1000s of miles away, it spread too quickly for nothing to have happened and they have uncovered areas where they they think the crucifixion and burial happened.

I’m not trying to tell you to believe in it, just that a man called Jesus existed, claimed to be the Son of God and died via crucifixion due to blasphemy.
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All well and good except...

There are no age comparable documents that support this. Your post says it..."they think".

As you said, there was probably a man (not sure what he was called), who went around telling everyone to be nice to each other. That man had a few followers, then a few more, an underground movement started, remember Rome banned Christianity and the like, and the whole thing gathered momentum leading to his capture, death (no one knows how/ where either really) and martyrdom.

A few hundred years later, with most Roman soldiers now Christians, Constantine makes it official. You can worship who you like. He then chooses 50 stories and lobs them all together for his book. This is not the bible in any shape or form.

Rome and it's territories are Christian.

Then forms of the bible start to appear...


As far as churches thousands of miles away...the Roman Army is to blame for that. Christianity spread to all four corners of the then known world. The Army was mostly made up from people from the areas they conquered. They were then shipped elsewhere to fight for Rome. They took their religions with them.

I'm all for the archaeology finding proof one way or the other. It would be exciting either way. But I suspect we will never properly know unless a document is found. But, as I have said earlier, finding one that said he was a normal man, with a normal family and not the son of a God would cause the very foundations of the church to crash down.
 
BimboBob said:
All well and good except...

There are no age comparable documents that support this. Your post says it..."they think".

As you said, there was probably a man (not sure what he was called), who went around telling everyone to be nice to each other. That man had a few followers, then a few more, an underground movement started, remember Rome banned Christianity and the like, and the whole thing gathered momentum leading to his capture, death (no one knows how/ where either really) and martyrdom.

A few hundred years later, with most Roman soldiers now Christians, Constantine makes it official. You can worship who you like. He then chooses 50 stories and lobs them all together for his book. This is not the bible in any shape or form.

Rome and it's territories are Christian.

Then forms of the bible start to appear...


As far as churches thousands of miles away...the Roman Army is to blame for that. Christianity spread to all four corners of the then known world. The Army was mostly made up from people from the areas they conquered. They were then shipped elsewhere to fight for Rome. They took their religions with them.

I'm all for the archaeology finding proof one way or the other. It would be exciting either way. But I suspect we will never properly know unless a document is found. But, as I have said earlier, finding one that said he was a normal man, with a normal family and not the son of a God would cause the very foundations of the church to crash down.
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It was highly likely he existed and his life existed how the gospels say. Of course people can dispute the miracles and other claims but what I’m saying is there is more than enough evidence to claim the man existed and he was crucified for his claims

Of course none were at the time and we’re taken from written and verbal transmissions but that’s not a reason to doubt legitimacy as a scholar.

I argued the opposite with my mate who’s a Priest and he absolutely battered me in the debate, showing me evidence from atheist/agnostic scholars to prove his point.

My point on it spreading so quickly was a point Hitchens once made, then he said “so something was definitely going on”.

I agree the latter would, I don’t think such document exists though.
 
The only thing about death that bothers me is it will come to my dog most likely before myself. When that day comes i don't know what i will do. He is still in fine fettle at 10yo and i hope beyond hope he stays that way forever.

As for myself, not to arsed to be honest.
 
TCIB said:
The only thing about death that bothers me is it will come to my dog most likely before myself. When that day comes i don't know what i will do. He is still in fine fettle at 10yo and i hope beyond hope he stays that way forever.

As for myself, not to arsed to be honest.
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How are you honey? Not seen you for a while,give him a big cuddle,the dog not stony lol
 
Never bothered about death until I had my daughter, ive seen lots of it in the past 18 years and I hope I can go peacefully at an old age knowing she is set for life and safe, it must be awful for those relatives it comes unexpectedly for. I worry more for her than me but I just think you stop and that’s it, we return to the stars from where we came.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Never bothered about death until I had my daughter, ive seen lots of it in the past 18 years and I hope I can go peacefully at an old age knowing she is set for life and safe, it must be awful for those relatives it comes unexpectedly for. I worry more for her than me but I just think you stop and that’s it, we return to the stars from where we came.
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Ive seen a few posts like this and it’s really tough to get my head around as I’m not a parent.

I will be in the not too distant future hopefully so I shall find out but it’s amazing to me how selfless parents often are.
 
I dont want any of my kids or grandchildren to die before me. I would willingly give my life up for them.
But asside from that I'm not too disturbed by death. Life isnt the end - I know that as too many wierd things have happened especially after holding the hands of my wife and 2 other relatives as they died. I have faith as a result of the first death and this has been confirmed by the two later deaths.
 
Ban-jani said:
Ive seen a few posts like this and it’s really tough to get my head around as I’m not a parent.

I will be in the not too distant future hopefully so I shall find out but it’s amazing to me how selfless parents often are.
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Never understood what the word paternal meant before my eldest was born, never thought I'd ever feel paternal. But something magical happened when my ex Mrs gave birth mate. My girls mean more to me than life itself.

You'll hopefully understand what I'm saying when you become a father and your paternal instincts kick in too: )
 
Ban-jani said:
It was highly likely he existed and his life existed how the gospels say. Of course people can dispute the miracles and other claims but what I’m saying is there is more than enough evidence to claim the man existed and he was crucified for his claims

Of course none were at the time and we’re taken from written and verbal transmissions but that’s not a reason to doubt legitimacy as a scholar.

I argued the opposite with my mate who’s a Priest and he absolutely battered me in the debate, showing me evidence from atheist/agnostic scholars to prove his point.

My point on it spreading so quickly was a point Hitchens once made, then he said “so something was definitely going on”.

I agree the latter would, I don’t think such document exists though.
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And that's the trouble with historical religious archeology. Too much faith.

No facts. Just plausible guesswork. Using the Bible as a start point and working backwards. There still is no mention of him until the first Bible. Over 300 years later. And the Bible is one great yarn. You might as well start with Geoffrey of Monmouth's book for all the good it will do.
 
BlueMoonRisin' said:
Never understood what the word paternal meant before my eldest was born, never thought I'd ever feel paternal. But something magical happened when my ex Mrs gave birth mate. My girls mean more to me than life itself.

You'll hopefully understand what I'm saying when you become a father and your paternal instincts kick in too: )
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Absolutely mate, I truly understand loving your family, partner, friends etc. but it does seem to take on a life of its own becoming a parent, almost a level up from other love.

It’s a gift in my opinion.
 
BimboBob said:
And that's the trouble with historical religious archeology. Too much faith.

No facts. Just plausible guesswork. Using the Bible as a start point and working backwards. There still is no mention of him until the first Bible. Over 300 years later. And the Bible is one great yarn. You might as well start with Geoffrey of Monmouth's book for all the good it will do.
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I mean, none of that is true mate haha.

The Gospels were written between 66AD and 110AD.

Scholars think Matthew could have been written less than 30 years after the crucifixion.

The Old Testament is one great yarn I agree, it’s tricky to make sense out of large parts of it but it’s interesting nonetheless.

Well the archeology is contested but they’ve got a pretty good idea where the crucifixion took place and a theory where the tomb was.

For the record there’s more evidence for Jesus of Nazareth than many historical figures of the ancient world that people don’t question existed, because well they’re not as important to life if they didn’t.

I am absolutely certain the man existed from everything I’ve seen and I spent a bit of time trying to prove otherwise to my mate, who’s a Priest.
 
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