Another new Brexit thread

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Ifwecouldjust....... said:
EU Intransigence? ....... It seems to me that the UK is accelerating and intensifying its complete lack of progress on a trade agreement because we are now reneging on the commitments, promises and legal obligations made when we signed the WA and PD
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There are no legal obligations in the PD

The UK has to recover from the 3 years of damage caused by being Remainer led and encapsulated in the WA and PD.

We are where we are - fucked over by May/Robbins - so we have to deal with it.

The best interests of the UK are most certainly not served by slavish adherence to the WA and PD.

Uncomfortable as the Remainers might find it to recall - but there was a GE in December - the result of which blew away all the restrictions that were preventing the UK government acting with confidence and free of the undermining of the UK's best interests by the EU acolytes at Westminster.

So step 1 - fuck off the PD

Step 2 - plan minimum viable adherence to the WA and

Step 3 - develop the UK as an genuinely independent nation entirely free of EU controls and we will flourish and be free to safely observe the stagnation that will unfortunately be the future of the EU
 
BlueAnorak said:
And they all pile in...
Sorry I dont accept your premise.
Much as you'd like to think it's a U turn, it really isnt. No-Deal planning has NOT changed only the assumption that a deal is probable.
Keep ranting!
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Spot on. Nobody seriously thought the political declaration was binding or the ERG lot would have kicked off.it was a sticking plaster to get leaving through parliament and the EU. The terms of the Pd were as bad or worse than May's brino deal. The current unease is not caused by a change in our govt policy, but by the penny dropping that there isn't going to be an opportunity to kick the can of brexit down the road far enough to get rid of this govt and put a remain one in place. What we are getting now is exactly what the public voted for in December.
 
mat said:
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No, Gove told the EU that we wouldn't extend transition beyond December. He also told business that in light of current negotiation problems, No-Deal planning was resurrected and that imports would not initially attract tariffs after December.
Two entirely different things to wanting No-Deal - which is your insinuation.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
No, Gove told the EU that we wouldn't extend transition beyond December. He also told business that in light of negotiation problems, No deal planning was resurrected and that imports would not initially attract tariffs after December.
Two entirely different things.
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A total betrayal of business and agriculture in the UK
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Spot on. Nobody seriously thought the political declaration was binding or the ERG lot would have kicked off.it was a sticking plaster to get leaving through parliament and the EU. The terms of the Pd were as bad or worse than May's brino deal. The current unease is not caused by a change in our govt policy, but by the penny dropping that there isn't going to be an opportunity to kick the can of brexit down the road far enough to get rid of this govt and put a remain one in place. What we are getting now is exactly what the public voted for in December.
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I think the EU might have taken the political declaration seriously. Walking back on it isn't going to be ideal to get what we want in a trade deal. On the one hand, I would say they government knows this and will blame the EU for the inevitable no deal. However, our complete lack of no deal planning suggests we're arrogant enough to think we'll get what we want. Either way, the circus in charge give absolutely no grounds for optimism and I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone genuinely had confidence in them to do well by us.
 
BlueAnorak said:
No, Gove told the EU that we wouldn't extend transition beyond December. He also told business that in light of negotiation problems, No deal planning was resurrected and that imports would not initially attract tariffs after December.
Two entirely different things.
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True that. We are sticking to the EU timetable laid out in the agreement in Jan. It's the EU that want (another) extension, and are seeking to paint us sticking to their terms as intransigence. If it ends with 'no deal' then both sides own that outcome, as both sides failed to agree anything else. Neither get to walk away saying because the other wouldn't agree to all our terms it's their fault. That's just childish.
 
joe123 said:
I think the EU might have taken the political declaration seriously. Walking back on it isn't going to be ideal to get what we want in a trade deal. On the one hand, I would say they government knows this and will blame the EU for the inevitable no deal. However, our complete lack of no deal planning suggests we're arrogant enough to think we'll get what we want. Either way, the circus in charge give absolutely no grounds for optimism and I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone genuinely had confidence in them to do well by us.
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Lack of planning? 2016-2020? How long do people need? Business, the EU and govt have been aware that no deal was on the table throughout - it's hardly a surprise. Even May said no deal was better than a bad deal. This unease isn't about lack of planning, it's about the penny dropping.
 
BlueAnorak said:
No, Gove told the EU that we wouldn't extend transition beyond December. He also told business that in light of current negotiation problems, No-Deal planning was resurrected and that imports would not initially attract tariffs after December.
Two entirely different things to wanting No-Deal - which is your insinuation.
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But was he lying about the damage? That's the point.
 
Vic said:
But was he lying about the damage? That's the point.
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But that's OK, because he's not actually lying until it's happened, and thankfully the public were able to make an informed decision having been warned adequately and in no uncertain terms of the downside to leaving by remain campaigners throughout. What you are actually upset about is that the remain view did not gain enough traction to prevail.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Lack of planning? 2016-2020? How long do people need? Business, the EU and govt have been aware that no deal was on the table throughout - it's hardly a surprise. Even May said no deal was better than a bad deal. This unease isn't about lack of planning, it's about the penny dropping.
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The fact that we won’t have full checks on goods entering til July 2021 would either suggest our govt think or thought a deal would be done, or they’re fucking shit at no deal planning
 
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joe123 said:
I think the EU might have taken the political declaration seriously. Walking back on it isn't going to be ideal to get what we want in a trade deal. On the one hand, I would say they government knows this and will blame the EU for the inevitable no deal. However, our complete lack of no deal planning suggests we're arrogant enough to think we'll get what we want. Either way, the circus in charge give absolutely no grounds for optimism and I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone genuinely had confidence in them to do well by us.
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Its interesting isnt it. Although its a very high stakes game , all negotiations with a lot at stake are like a game of poker. Neither wants to budge and give ground. The interesting stance by the EU is that they are trying to tie us to some of their rules which will undoubtedly handicap us as an independent nation. The question that those who take the EUs stance in this continued debate on here should ask themselves is why is the EU demanding this from an independent nation. There can only be one answer and that is they fear that the UK would prosper and that would lead to other states leaving their social and political experiment.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
But that's OK, because he's not actually lying until it's happened, and thankfully the public were able to make an informed decision having been warned adequately and in no uncertain terms of the downside to leaving by remain campaigners throughout. What you are actually upset about is that the remain view did not gain enough traction to prevail.
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Yes, we've been told about this 'Damage' for Donkeys years, along with being
told how the Mackems were idiots, and untold numbers of hysterical forecasts.
We told them we disagreed, they ignored us and spent 3 years
attempting to override democracy. Magic Grandpa thought he had the Glastos on
his side, and voted for an election, we all jumped for joy and predicted the outcome,
and we were right again, and him and IRA Johnny are now sat at the back and doomed to
another 40 years of irrelevance.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Its interesting isnt it. Although its a very high stakes game , all negotiations with a lot at stake are like a game of poker. Neither wants to budge and give ground. The interesting stance by the EU is that they are trying to tie us to some of their rules which will undoubtedly handicap us as an independent nation. The question that those who take the EUs stance in this continued debate on here should ask themselves is why is the EU demanding this from an independent nation. There can only be one answer and that is they fear that the UK would prosper and that would lead to other states leaving their social and political experiment.
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No rule taking, no extensions, either work from that stance, or no more chit chat.
I think we'll get a FTA.
 
joe123 said:
The fact that we won’t have full checks on goods entering til July 2021 would either suggest our govt think or thought a deal would be done, or they’re fucking shit at no deal planning
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They have granted a six month tariff free extension to imported goods to cushion the blow of brexit on UK businesses that rely on imported parts/supplies. The EU are whacking on the tariffs from day one - yet it's the UK being 'difficult' :-)
 
Vic said:
...and the voters.
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The voters had a referendum two GE's and a European election to make their feelings known, and they did. In hindsight maybe calling people or their opinions stupid for four years is not the best way to win them over and change their minds? There seems to be evidence to support this.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
No rule taking, no extensions, either work from that stance, or no more chit chat.
I think we'll get a FTA.
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Most definitely, the EU just cannot afford a no deal situation with the trade implications and the loss of the divorce settlement. Next month the EU paymasters the Germans take control of the EU presidency, it wouldnt surprise me if the impasse is moved aside then. Anyway its a lovely day, my hangover has cleared so its about time I moved into the garden.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
But that's OK, because he's not actually lying until it's happened, and thankfully the public were able to make an informed decision having been warned adequately and in no uncertain terms of the downside to leaving by remain campaigners throughout. What you are actually upset about is that the remain view did not gain enough traction to prevail.
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Just enough for a persistent majority who thinks (still) we are making a mistake by leaving. They're still lying about it - someone on the radio this morning claiming polls show a majority against extending. That's not true but then he may have been looking selectively at the poll in which there was a majority for conflicting options...

Democracy, eh?
  • More people agreed (44%) than disagreed (24%) that “it is important for the UK to stick to our agreed scheduled transition period.”
  • More people agreed (38%) than disagreed (28%) that “extending the transition period is in the interest of the UK.”
  • More people agreed (40%) than disagreed (27%) that “it would be embarrassing for the UK to extend the transition period with the EU into 2021”
  • More people agreed (35%) than disagreed (26%) that “extending the transition period would result in a better outcome for the UK.”
 
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