Another new Brexit thread

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Bovril said:
Total silence from @Vic and @west didsblue. let me tell you Liz McInnes was/is a brilliant MP, she personally helped my elderly Mother out on a housing problem and because of it have total respect for her. Problem was she voted down every leave vote in Parliament and subsequently paid the price, I would vote for her every time if she didn't go against her constituencies views because that is what democracy is all about, isn't it?
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No Corbyn and she'd still be MP.

I'm not sure why you're obsessing over this. It's obvious Labour lost seats because of Brexit. We lost our Labour MP because Labour wasn't committed enough to Remain so lost votes to the LibDems and let the Tory in.

Every poll says a majority thinks leaving was/is a mistake.

It's all a distraction from the current mess.
 
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smudgedj said:
Sure.

June 2016 the most British people ever to vote for anything voted to leave the EU.

In the general election of 2017, more than 80 per cent of the voting public voted for pro-Leave manifestos.

The European election of 2019 was won by an operation called “The Brexit Party”

2019 general election produced a thumping majority for Boris Johnson’s pathway out of the EU.
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They would be what are referred to as: 'inconvenient truths'
 
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Vic said:
I didn't read it. I just counted how many words he used in response to your two.

It's a "Contentless Logorrhea Coefficient of 50:1".
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Ha ha - special talent that

Being able to count the words without reading them
 
Kazzydeyna said:
I'm not actually. I know loads of Tory voters who were fans of remain.

That's the thing with the whole argument. It was never as simple as "Tory's want to leave, labour voters want to remain".
It's never been and never will be a simple left/right argument.

Never forget it was the Tories that took us into Europe, signed the Maastricht treaty, it was Mrs Thatcher who was one of the biggest proponents of the single market, it was the Tories who campaigned - twice - to keep us in Europe, and it was a Tory pm who, after the referendum was won by working class votes, spent 2 years trying her best to undermine the result.

The best trick the establishment ever played was convincing people who aren't capable of thinking for themselves that only hard right Tories wanted to leave the EU.
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Really well explained
 
Bovril said:
Still waiting @west didsblue I know your lurking?
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Fuck sake. Stop tagging me you pillock. Just done an online quiz with some friends and had a takeaway. And it’s you’re not your.

In answer to your point, there was a single vote for Brexit in 2016 where 52% voted to Leave. That was the only poll where the overall result was based on the popular vote. The popular vote for Brexit supporting parties in the three elections you have listed was between 45% and 48%. However as you’re well aware, the largest party in each of those polls was a Brexit supporting party. That’s how our democracy works; the largest party wins. It doesn’t mean a majority of the electorate voted for Brexit.

And that’s ignoring the fact that in the two GEs, it can’t be assumed that Brexit was the driving factor as it was a whole manifesto and leadership that were voted for, and like it or not Brexit may well have not been the biggest factor when people made their choice. So as I said, Brexit won one referendum. The rest is all your opinion.
 
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Vic said:
How many Conservative voters wanted to Remain? (Use the same source... unless it's made up of course)
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I voted Remain as did around 10% of the population (who dislike the EU's insesent ratcheting up of integration to the final goal of a European super state) but voted Remain for an easy life.
But as a believer in democracy the continual attempts to subvert the democratic will of the people really rankled.
Here we are 4 years later and they are still trying.
The bottom line is that a deal will only happen if the EU don't try to make the UK subservient to EU rules as they are currently trying to do.
I used to vote Labour but I doubt I ever will again.
 
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Bovril said:
Still waiting @west didsblue, why did my constituency after many years become a Tory seat? In the referendum it voted leave by a huge majority, something you cannot understand?
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I also live in Manchester and I know that none of the Manchester constituencies voted blue.
I can only assume that your definition of Manchester is similar to that of United fans.
My guess is that your constituency somewhere near Manchester voted Tory because, like many people, they didn’t want Corbyn.
 
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blueparrot said:
Good to be able to tell the difference. Never been subservient to Europe, you’ll find we wrote and insisted on a big chunk of the rules
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For a fee market but as usual it's been subverted.
No European army - er - what's that they're trying to put together?
No drive to be a superstate - er - see strings attached to Covid-19 recovery funds?
 
BlueAnorak said:
I voted Remain as did around 10% of the population (who dislike the EU's insesent ratcheting up of integration to the final goal of a European super state) but voted Remain for an easy life.
But as a believer in democracy the continual attempts to subvert the democratic will of the people really rankled.
Here we are 4 years later and they are still trying.
The bottom line is that a deal will only happen if the EU don't try to make the UK subservient to EU rules as they are currently trying to do.
I used to vote Labour but I doubt I ever will again.
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What are you on about? We’ve left and we’re not going back. Those who care about the future of this country don’t want an idiot prime minister guided by an unelected sociopath deciding our future relationship with the EU, where their preferred outcome will be shit for the majority and will make them and their mates very rich.
 
west didsblue said:
Fuck sake. Stop tagging me you pillock. Just done an online quiz with some friends and had a takeaway. And it’s you’re not your.

In answer to your point, there was a single vote for Brexit in 2016 where 52% voted to Leave. That was the only poll where the overall result was based on the popular vote. The popular vote for Brexit supporting parties in the three elections you have listed was between 45% and 48%. However as you’re well aware, the largest party in each of those polls was a Brexit supporting party. That’s how our democracy works; the largest party wins. It doesn’t mean a majority of the electorate voted for Brexit.

And that’s ignoring the fact that in the two GEs, it can’t be assumed that Brexit was the driving factor as it was a whole manifesto and leadership that were voted for, and like it or not Brexit may well have not been the biggest factor when people made their choice. So as I said, Brexit won one referendum. The rest is all your opinion.
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Really well explained.
 
Vic said:
all with a majority for parties promising at least a chance to think again.
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giphy.gif
 
Bovril said:
I am curious why you do not understand or accept that the UK electorate of all persuasions voted for Brexit on 4 occasions, you seem by most of your posts as a reasonable poster.
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Fanaticism mate, simply no acceptance that the chosen way has been roundly rejected
time after time. Similar to Corbyn claiming he'd won the argument, when he's just
overseen the biggest battering for nigh on 100 years.
 
I know you all enjoy the baiting but I don't know why you get such comfort from it. It's irrelevant to what's in the national interest.

There's another thread in which people are arguing about Churchill. His party won a massive majority in 1935 on a policy of appeasement (he was an appeaser then). "Should we appease Germany?" would have had a big "yes" in a referendum.

Things change. Events happen. Voters get it wrong (but seem very reluctant to admit it).

Winning seems a comfort to you. I just don't get the readiness to use it as lack of concern about the outcome we are heading for (see quote from Gove and everybody else from the Leave campaign who dismissed leaving without a deal as part of "project fear").
 
According to the WTO, unless we come to an agreement with the EU, our plans to not implement full customs checks and tariffs on EU imports on day 1 would breach MFN rules, with the consequence that potentially every country in the world could export to us on that same basis without the obligation for them to reciprocate with our exports.
 
Vic said:
I know you all enjoy the baiting but I don't know why you get such comfort from it.
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Well you should, by now, have an inkling why. You all enjoyed and rejoiced every time
some democracy denier in the House stood up and told us we need to think again. You praised
an overtly partisan speaker, stymying every attempt to impose the will of the people.
You loved it when May was floundering in Europe and begging for extensions. You have incessantly
refused to accept the democratic will of the people with this utterly ludicrous, never ending
wriggling about each and every loss.
So forgive us if it's us who are now taking the piss out of you.

It's all in good fun, really Vic.


Vic said:
Things change. Events happen. Voters get it wrong (but seem very reluctant to admit it).
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Things change, events happen, you don't like what people decide on, and so
footstamp and fume, and tell us in various convoluted diatribes that we didn't really succeed,
and that right is on your side.
We don't believe that.
 
west didsblue said:
According to the WTO, unless we come to an agreement with the EU, our plans to not implement full customs checks and tariffs on EU imports on day 1 would breach MFN rules, with the consequence that potentially every country in the world could export to us on that same basis without the obligation for them to reciprocate with our exports.
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Go on I'll bite.
Link please
 
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