Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

Not really sure what the real substance was in that article.

Read like it had been cut and paste from this thread - from a @BobKowalski post

Maybe Bob works for the FT ?

Here is another pro-EU fluff article quoting a French minister......

https://www.politico.eu/article/eur...it-french-minister-amelie-de-montchalin-says/

I wonder if any Remainers are spotting the hypocrisy / irony of the statement......

“Those who need a deal the most are the British. They cannot withstand a second shock after the epidemic, they won’t have access to the safety net of Europe, or the recovery fund,” de Montchalin said, referring to the economic crisis the coronavirus epidemic is expected to cause. ????

I will pause before giving my comments on that gem

The substance of it was pretty clear to me.
This is our first great challenge a an independent country able to do the deals we want wherever in the world we want.
Oh dear, that went well.

 

[west didsblue]

Its madness that we are this far in and we still have no idea which way BJ will go, if he wants no deal he has to start now. Unless he wants no deal with no intention of implementing the required changes to ports / customs / tariffs etc. That would be chaos and open us up to all sorts of legal risks. So if he is not doing anything about no deal preparation and wont go for a chaotic no deal is it going to do a soft brexit / brino at the last minute? Well and truly boxed in a corner as options 1 or 2 are a car crash that he wont survive and option 3 would have Farage marching on No10 in his vintage barber with his shotgun out followed by a mob of 'football lads'.

Yep. It’s bleeding obvious to you, me and anyone with a grip on reality that what you say is spot on.

I find it bizarre that there seems to be no acknowledgement from the Brexit bullshitters on here that No Deal is a non starter unless we started preparing for it months ago.

They think that all we need is a bit of totally unjustified optimism and a weird belief that either the EU are going to fold and give us everything we want or we’ll get the “clean” fantasy Brexit that comes with No Deal with none of the real hugely negative consequences that are obvious to anyone who takes any notice.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Its madness that we are this far in and we still have no idea which way BJ will go, if he wants no deal he has to start now. Unless he wants no deal with no intention of implementing the required changes to ports / customs / tariffs etc. That would be chaos and open us up to all sorts of legal risks. So if he is not doing anything about no deal preparation and wont go for a chaotic no deal is it going to do a soft brexit / brino at the last minute? Well and truly boxed in a corner as options 1 or 2 are a car crash that he wont survive and option 3 would have Farage marching on No10 in his vintage barber with his shotgun out followed by a mob of 'football lads'.

But, but, the British people are wholeheartedly sick of hearing about Brexit, why tell them anything other than it’s ‘done’.

 

[adrianr]

Its madness that we are this far in and we still have no idea which way BJ will go, if he wants no deal he has to start now. Unless he wants no deal with no intention of implementing the required changes to ports / customs / tariffs etc. That would be chaos and open us up to all sorts of legal risks. So if he is not doing anything about no deal preparation and wont go for a chaotic no deal is it going to do a soft brexit / brino at the last minute? Well and truly boxed in a corner as options 1 or 2 are a car crash that he wont survive and option 3 would have Farage marching on No10 in his vintage barber with his shotgun out followed by a mob of 'football lads'.

If Cummings is as clever as he thinks he is, he should have no problem persuading the mob that whatever Brexit he comes up with is good for them. Maybe a shock and awe ad campaign?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

What an absolute fucking abortion.

 

[adrianr]

We can’t prepare for a no deal scenario now, it’s far too late and we don’t have the capacity to do it anyway. We are struggling to find a way out of lockdown safely let alone start no deal preparations. It’s why we keep pushing for some sort of resolution by the end of July so we at least know what we are up against. The E27 countries take an opposite view, that the negotiations will only really get going in Sept/Oct and it still requires the UK to shift on its redlines. The E27 have no intention of being pressured into an early resolution on a deal unless it’s to their liking.

The pressure on the UK in Sept/Oct to get a deal will be immense which is exactly what the E27 want. The complicating factor is the virus as no knows what shape anyone will be in later this year but looking at the shitshow we made over PPE, testing and now the track and trace app no one is betting the UK will be in a better shape.

What is possible is the UK signing a last minute deal to avoid fall out on 1st Jan and then spend the next decade desperately trying to avoid implementing all the stuff we don’t like or didn’t realise what it meant when we signed it. The Withdrawal Agreement is glimpse of that future. An agreement we heralded as a victory but in reality means we do not have unilateral control over a border within our own sovereign territory. The disconnect between reality and Brexiteer fantasies is staggering.

Act in haste, repent at leisure truly is the perfect slogan for this government. How anyone thinks, even if there were some slim chance that Brexit could be a roaring success, that this shower are the ones to deliver it is baffling.

 

[bluethrunthru]

“Those who need a deal the most are the British. They cannot withstand a second shock after the epidemic, they won’t have access to the safety net of Europe, or the recovery fund,”

As a Remainer I have no issue with that statement. If we are in deep shit at the time I wouldn't expect any help from the EU for the simple reason we have chosen to cut ourselves off from the EU and any resources it might offer. You know that idea that when you leave a club you lose access to its facilities ?

The other thing I see is the Leave side lining up to try and blame the EU for any problems brought on by us deciding to leave the EU.

This on a day when the total UK debt rose to a sum larger that the UK economy for the first time since records began

 

[dave_blue12]

If Cummings is as clever as he thinks he is, he should have no problem persuading the mob that whatever Brexit he comes up with is good for them. Maybe a shock and awe ad campaign?

Ah but that is a fundamental part of the problem. Cummings is not even remotely as clever as he thinks he is.

 

[Ban-jani]

I think Johnson will compromise here, I genuinely think his ego and obsession with being the top man will get the better of him and he’ll accept worse terms than he wanted.

Of course these terms won’t make much difference to the odd man on the street, I think it’s more about both parties getting “the win” over the negotiations.

 

[west didsblue]

I think Johnson will compromise here, I genuinely think his ego and obsession with being the top man will get the better of him and he’ll accept worse terms than he wanted.

Of course these terms won’t make much difference to the odd man on the street, I think it’s more about both parties getting “the win” over the negotiations.

At some point reality will bite him on the arse because his backers won’t want the pound to crash.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Someone else said it . It's a fkin abortion.

I don't care about right or wrong, left or right, remain or leave. But the whole thing has been one big fuckoff mess.

Cameron has got a lot to answer for, the Conservatives have got a lot to answer for.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Ah but that is a fundamental part of the problem. Cummings is not even remotely as clever as he thinks he is.

It matters not - the fat thick lazy one believes he is super intelligent ( mainly coz he does some work meaning Johnson doesn't have to ) so he stays in post

 

[mcfc1632]

The substance of it was pretty clear to me.
This is our first great challenge a an independent country able to do the deals we want wherever in the world we want.
Oh dear, that went well.

Well of course - and I do not want to trivialise that with a comment such as:

And....?
So.…?

But leaving the EU and being an independent nation is not just for Christmas or the life of this incompetent administration - it is for decades and generations to come. Decades and generations of terminal decline if we do not break free of this stagnating and terminally flawed construct

We need to get on with this and rise to the challenges that come - ideally we should have been better prepared - you will have seen many posts from me calling for the need for no-deal planning from 2016!!

But this is what happens when you are led for years by either a Remainer dominated government or one lacking core skills and experience

The only thing offered on here - and in the FT and of course by resurgent EU acolytes - is that we should extend for 2 years - to achieve what?????

Such an act would be used and abused by the EU - such an act is of no benefit to the commitment to (genuinely) leave the EU and thereby start an upward path

No - it is just another same old same old fluff pieces - similar to the one posted by @BobKowalski before this post from you

So many people on here and wider refuse to make any effort o get their heads around the fact that - for the good of the UK's future we are separating - not just technically leaving

All the many pages and 100s of posts on here could just be put in a couple of folders with the titles:

"Remainer guff from posters that hope for Brexit being overturned - continuing the use of doom mongering

and

"Remainer guff form the more desperate posters not caring if the UK's future prospects and the welfare of its citizens suffer as long as it means either that there is a chance of retying the umbilical cord or at least providing them the opportunity to claim to have won an argument on a football forum"

They are institutionally lacking in any objectivity and positivity

Bleating is easy...

I would wish for better management at this time

I would have wished that the no-deal planning was commenced in 2016 or at least much earlier

I would have wished that the country had not been so badly damaged by the May/Robbins era

But, I am not sitting here whinging - what's gone is gone - I am looking to the future - which will be a time long after Boris fucking Johnson was PM

I suggest that Remainers ought to shake off their paralysis as well and bring an end to their largely pathetic carping - at least that is an appropriate description if this thread is in anyway typical
​

 

[Ban-jani]

Someone else said it . It's a fkin abortion.

I don't care about right or wrong, left or right, remain or leave. But the whole thing has been one big fuckoff mess.

Cameron has got a lot to answer for, the Conservatives have got a lot to answer for.

I don’t blame Cameron for holding the referendum anymore, I’m not bitter about the result and I appreciate it’s what the electorate wants.

What I blame the **** for is having no plan whatsoever for if leave were to win and for resigning.

People can criticise austerity and his policies but he’s far more competent than what followed him and had he properly planned and followed through on his promise, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

 

[mcfc1632]

As a Remainer I have no issue with that statement. If we are in deep shit at the time I wouldn't expect any help from the EU for the simple reason we have chosen to cut ourselves off from the EU and any resources it might offer. You know that idea that when you leave a club you lose access to its facilities ?

The other thing I see is the Leave side lining up to try and blame the EU for any problems brought on by us deciding to leave the EU.

This on a day when the total UK debt rose to a sum larger that the UK economy for the first time since records began

Well - you utterly failed the exam question there

Total whoosh......

 

[bluethrunthru]

I would have wished that the country had not been so badly damaged by the May/Robbins era

I forgot - as well as all the blame falling on the EU for us damaging ourselves and leaving the EU the May/Robbins duo have to take some flak over it too. Nothing is allowed to call into question the sanity of the operation in the first place.

I fully expect 52% - will of the people - democracy - thick - racist - to be among the 10,000 words that appear in a response - none of which have I used in any of my replies but hey ho so it goes.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Well of course - and I do not want to trivialise that with a comment such as:

And....?
So.…?

But leaving the EU and being an independent nation is not just for Christmas or the life of this incompetent administration - it is for decades and generations to come. Decades and generations of terminal decline if we do not break free of this stagnating and terminally flawed construct

We need to get on with this and rise to the challenges that come - ideally we should have been better prepared - you will have seen many posts from me calling for the need for no-deal planning from 2016!!

But this is what happens when you are led for years by either a Remainer dominated government or one lacking core skills and experience

The only thing offered on here - and in the FT and of course by resurgent EU acolytes - is that we should extend for 2 years - to achieve what?????

Such an act would be used and abused by the EU - such an act is of no benefit to the commitment to (genuinely) leave the EU and thereby start an upward path

No - it is just another same old same old fluff pieces - similar to the one posted by @BobKowalski before this post from you

So many people on here and wider refuse to make any effort o get their heads around the fact that - for the good of the UK's future we are separating - not just technically leaving

All the many pages and 100s of posts on here could just be put in a couple of folders with the titles:

"Remainer guff from posters that hope for Brexit being overturned - continuing the use of doom mongering

and

"Remainer guff form the more desperate posters not caring if the UK's future prospects and the welfare of its citizens suffer as long as it means either that there is a chance of retying the umbilical cord or at least providing them the opportunity to claim to have won an argument on a football forum"

They are institutionally lacking in any objectivity and positivity

Bleating is easy...

I would wish for better management at this time

I would have wished that the no-deal planning was commenced in 2016 or at least much earlier

I would have wished that the country had not been so badly damaged by the May/Robbins era

But, I am not sitting here whinging - what's gone is gone - I am looking to the future - which will be a time long after Boris fucking Johnson was PM

I suggest that Remainers ought to shake off their paralysis as well and bring an end to their largely pathetic carping - at least that is an appropriate description if this thread is in anyway typical
​

Decades and generations of terminal decline

I thought the U.K. had done relatively well since joining the EU. Think you need to define what you mean.

on the face of it we have 4 more years of Johnson and the Sycophants. A great deal of damage is/can be done in the term of a government. I’m happy that you can look beyond that to a more attractive future where some unforeseen competence will be displayed. I understand your reasons for wanting out of the EU and I do not seek to denigrate them. What I struggle with is where is the evidence or even the glimmer of hope that things will be more attractive in some undetermined future and why are you not worried about the glaring problems that are facing the country over the next year?

 

[inbetween]

You offer to much in the way of sensible thinking / logic

Whereas people just look for an headline that can be used to feed their neeeed to express their agenda of hate

But when they start on the subject of PFI I have a proper chuckle at the ignorance I see

I get tempted to provide some facts - but I can no longer be bothered to engage with some of them

As with everything there are advantages and disadvantages but for these planes the reason for leasing etc is very clear and it's not always about cost but rather because there is an operator able to do it.

If Airtanker didn't exist then the government would have to buy the plane and maintain it but in my opinion they might then look at other aircraft on cost reasons. The result then is the capability of the chosen platform might be worse but who knows?

As you say those opposing PFI think that ownership is king and that's the end of it but it's very easy to prove that isn't always true.

It's like your car, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to own a car as opposed to leasing it (if the price is right).

Arguably the only reason for home ownership is because homes normally rise in value. Apply the car ownership model to a home and would anyone buy a house? Not a chance.

 

[west didsblue]

As with everything there are advantages and disadvantages but for these planes the reason for leasing etc is very clear and it's not always about cost but rather because there is an operator able to do it.

If Airtanker didn't exist then the government would have to buy the plane and maintain it but in my opinion they might then look at other aircraft on cost reasons. The result then is the capability of the chosen platform might be worse but who knows?

As you say those opposing PFI think that ownership is king and that's the end of it but it's very easy to prove that isn't always true.

It's like your car, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to own a car as opposed to leasing it (if the price is right).

Arguably the only reason for home ownership is because homes normally rise in value. Apply the car ownership model to a home and would anyone buy a house? Not a chance.

Agree with most of that. Not strictly true about what would have to happen if Airtanker didn’t exist. There was a competition between Airtanker and TTSC in 2000-2002 which Airtanker won. If TTSC had won, the RAF would be flying ex BA Boeing 767s modified at Woodford. Not relevant to Brexit but I thought I’d mention it. It was however an example of the UK choosing a European solution over a US one.

 

[Len Rum]

My own view is that both sides will reach a zero tariff PRICE deal on most goods.
No LPF but reference to an independent body if UK deviate and then possible introduction of appropriate tariffs on goods affected ie all maňana and kicking problems into the long grass.
The above will not apply to agriculture however which could require subsidising by UK govt.
Nor will it apply to non tariff barriers which could impact pharmaceutical, automotive sectors etc.
Fishing will be agreed on a quota basis like Norway.
Export of UK and finance services could be adversely affected
Both sides can then spin it as a good deal.
EU are protecting their surplus in goods traded and UK protecting UK consumers and industry for price tariffs and now free of EU restrictions to be nimble in high tech industries and free to do global deals.