Your reply demonstrates that you are an absolutely prime example of one of those that are stuck in 2016 fighting the good fightI forgot - as well as all the blame falling on the EU for us damaging ourselves and leaving the EU the May/Robbins duo have to take some flak over it too. Nothing is allowed to call into question the sanity of the operation in the first place.
I fully expect 52% - will of the people - democracy - thick - racist - to be among the 10,000 words that appear in a response - none of which have I used in any of my replies but hey ho so it goes.
We're spending £4.5m to tell them to get ready for Brexit.But, but, the British people are wholeheartedly sick of hearing about Brexit, why tell them anything other than it’s ‘done’.
But having a plan would have given the voters the impression it might be a good idea. Far better to avoid saying we'd be years tied up in negotiations and ensure that all the difficult questions should be swerved during the campaign (oh sorry, that was Cummings' tactic adopted by the Leave campaign).I don’t blame Cameron for holding the referendum anymore, I’m not bitter about the result and I appreciate it’s what the electorate wants.
What I blame the **** for is having no plan whatsoever for if leave were to win and for resigning.
People can criticise austerity and his policies but he’s far more competent than what followed him and had he properly planned and followed through on his promise, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
But having a plan would have given the voters the impression it might be a good idea. Far better to avoid saying we'd be years tied up in negotiations and all the difficult questions should be swerved duringt the campaign (oh sorry, that was Cummings' tactic adopted by the Leave campaign).
Johnson, Gove and Vote Leave had one. We'd still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.He didn’t need to say he had one?
Oh, oh, another run on toilet rolls.We're spending £4.5m to tell them to get ready for Brexit.
I think Johnson will compromise here, I genuinely think his ego and obsession with being the top man will get the better of him and he’ll accept worse terms than he wanted.
Of course these terms won’t make much difference to the odd man on the street, I think it’s more about both parties getting “the win” over the negotiations.
I'm afraid I'm going to play the mcfc1632 game where we have to guess what he means so he can go "whoosh" if we guess wrong. I think he was highlighting the comment that the UK "won’t have access to the safety net of Europe, or the recovery fund" because we have avoided contributing to the €750bn recovery fund. (Separate issues - there's an existing small fund which we could put in for but the deadline is Tuesday and we may bother because we don't want to be seen from benefitting from EU money - even when it comes from our contributions.)The substance of it was pretty clear to me.
This is our first great challenge a an independent country able to do the deals we want wherever in the world we want.
Oh dear, that went well.
Does anyone from either side of the Brexit debate consider Katie Hopkins as anything other than a vile troll who should be ignored?If we look at the evidence from the same paralysis over the WA he basically capitulated and went with May's deal with a different but equally unacceptable outcome on the NI/ROI border. The political declaration describes a fairly soft brexit with free trade and LPF provisions. This deal was done as close to the death as he could get it and the proposal was to ram it through as quickly as possible - in the event of failure he wanted a GE and in the end they just agreed to a GE without anyone really looking at the WA.
If you apply that approach to where we are now he will wait as long as he can and let people lose their shit over the prospect of no deal - then agree a soft brexit deal with a FTA and LPF as the basis and proclaim himself the greatest PM of all time because of his wonderful deal. Remainers are happy as we avoided the train wreck of no deal and BJ then spends the next 3 / 4 years fending off the nutters in the ERG and the likes of Farage and Katy Hopkins who would claim we are a vassal state (I can see that could work as there would be very little political capital left for a harder brexit or any kind of reboot of hard brexit). If Cummings had gone I would think this plan a or at least plan b if no deal looks too toxic. But with Cummings in situ then a toxic no deal looks like plan a.
If we look at the evidence from the same paralysis over the WA he basically capitulated and went with May's deal with a different but equally unacceptable outcome on the NI/ROI border. The political declaration describes a fairly soft brexit with free trade and LPF provisions. This deal was done as close to the death as he could get it and the proposal was to ram it through as quickly as possible - in the event of failure he wanted a GE and in the end they just agreed to a GE without anyone really looking at the WA.
If you apply that approach to where we are now he will wait as long as he can and let people lose their shit over the prospect of no deal - then agree a soft brexit deal with a FTA and LPF as the basis and proclaim himself the greatest PM of all time because of his wonderful deal. Remainers are happy as we avoided the train wreck of no deal and BJ then spends the next 3 / 4 years fending off the nutters in the ERG and the likes of Farage and Katy Hopkins who would claim we are a vassal state (I can see that could work as there would be very little political capital left for a harder brexit or any kind of reboot of hard brexit). If Cummings had gone I would think this plan a or at least plan b if no deal looks too toxic. But with Cummings in situ then a toxic no deal looks like plan a.
I’m not playing games. I have little interest in the EU fund, nothing to do with us as we left. It’s all a red herring anyway, the thrust of the FT article was Johnson had the chance to demonstrate an ‘unfettered’ U.K. Capability on the world stage through our response to COVID. Given the widely held belief that we are in the bottom 3 for how we have dealt with the virus it’s not exactly a ringing endorsement for our future in the wider world.I'm afraid I'm going to play the mcfc1632 game where we have to guess what he means so he can go "whoosh" if we guess wrong. I think he was highlighting the comment that the UK "won’t have access to the safety net of Europe, or the recovery fund" because we have avoided contributing to the €750bn recovery fund. (Separate issues - there's an existing small fund which we could put in for but the deadline is Tuesday and we may bother because we don't want to be seen from benefitting from EU money - even when it comes from our contributions.)
I don't know if anyone knows how much the UK might have had to contribute to the proposed €750bn recovery fund and how much the UK would have got from it (having made a pig's ear of our Covid strategy). The fund would probably have had to be more than €750bn anyway to cover how much we'd get as one of the worst affected countries. Curiously, along with the "frugal four" who have yet to be persuaded, if we were still a member (with a Tory government) we'd probably have objected to the recovery fund, so most of the EU is glad we we're not there to say no. Not that we will escape the damage of debt though, and dodgy ways to get back on track - the Bank of England is doing its own multi-billion slush fund.
If we look at the evidence from the same paralysis over the WA he basically capitulated and went with May's deal with a different but equally unacceptable outcome on the NI/ROI border. The political declaration describes a fairly soft brexit with free trade and LPF provisions. This deal was done as close to the death as he could get it and the proposal was to ram it through as quickly as possible - in the event of failure he wanted a GE and in the end they just agreed to a GE without anyone really looking at the WA.
If you apply that approach to where we are now he will wait as long as he can and let people lose their shit over the prospect of no deal - then agree a soft brexit deal with a FTA and LPF as the basis and proclaim himself the greatest PM of all time because of his wonderful deal. Remainers are happy as we avoided the train wreck of no deal and BJ then spends the next 3 / 4 years fending off the nutters in the ERG and the likes of Farage and Katy Hopkins who would claim we are a vassal state (I can see that could work as there would be very little political capital left for a harder brexit or any kind of reboot of hard brexit). If Cummings had gone I would think this plan a or at least plan b if no deal looks too toxic. But with Cummings in situ then a toxic no deal looks like plan a.
Johnson, Gove and Vote Leave had one. We'd still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.
I can see the spin now. "As we promised, we're still in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border". One problem - how does the EU agree to that without the contributions? (If we get that for nowt, why would any member state not want the same?)
Your reply demonstrates that you are absolutely prime example of one of those that are stuck in 2016 fighting the good fight
Fuck - I may have some concerns about how this is panning out - but at least I am not spending every day in paralysis and bitterness
I suggest that you need to find some way of moving on - if only a little bit
I agree with your views - although I would swap compromise for capitulateI think Johnson will compromise here, I genuinely think his ego and obsession with being the top man will get the better of him and he’ll accept worse terms than he wanted.
Of course these terms won’t make much difference to the odd man on the street, I think it’s more about both parties getting “the win” over the negotiations.
Could be a very good analysis that LenMy own view is that both sides will reach a zero tariff PRICE deal on most goods.
No LPF but reference to an independent body if UK deviate and then possible introduction of appropriate tariffs on goods affected ie all maňana and kicking problems into the long grass.
The above will not apply to agriculture however which could require subsidising by UK govt.
Nor will it apply to non tariff barriers which could impact pharmaceutical, automotive sectors etc.
Fishing will be agreed on a quota basis like Norway.
Export of UK and finance services could be adversely affected
Both sides can then spin it as a good deal.
EU are protecting their surplus in goods traded and UK protecting UK consumers and industry for price tariffs and now free of EU restrictions to be nimble in high tech industries and free to do global deals.
See my post directly after yoursWhat are the concerns you have about how it is panning out?
See my post directly after yours
The EU will want Johnson directly involved - they are professionals and he is a shallow buffoon - they will run rings around him if he is not held on a very tight leash