Kalidou Koulibaly

[BringBackSwales]

Laporte is not an experienced CB, he can't be the leader of a back-line.

we bought Laporte at 23 but Stones failed so time to change it up.

lol

You use lol when something is funny, not when something is manic gibberish

 

[Delphacito]

Depends how you set up, dippers have 2 DM in most matches, we have one, thats the exposure shes talking about..

They actually only have Fabinho as the DM while Wijnaldum and Henderson pushes forward. Fabinho often drops back in between the CB too during build up.

 

[Ezzy]

They actually only have Fabinho as the DM while Wijnaldum and Henderson pushes forward. Fabinho often drops back in between the CB too during build up.

But only in a "supporting" role.

they play pretty much like our Inverted Full-backs do. Mostly focusing on helping the DM prevent counter-attacks through the middle & helping the defense.

Occasionally they also rotate to push forward like walker sometimes does. They all never/rarely focus on short incisive passing thru the middle.

 

[Delphacito]

But only in a "supporting" role.

they play pretty much like our Inverted Full-backs do. Mostly focusing on helping the DM prevent counter-attacks through the middle & helping the defense.

Occasionally they also rotate to push forward like walker sometimes does. They all never/rarely focus on short incisive passing thru the middle.

I don’t disagree with that. The point I was making was that the way they set up isn’t too different than whatevery body else is doing. He’s amazing for Liverpool, would’ve been amazing for us as well.

 

[Delphacito]

A lot is made of him as the ball does't even get to their CB's most times because of their pressing. It starts with their front 3 closing down and the midfield 3 defending. Most teams can't play thru though them and just try to go over the top. So the pace of Van Dijk and Gomez is there to get to the ball first and Van Dijk can deal with most #9's in the air. BTW we showed what can happen when you can play through their press. However, he was what was needed against most teams. They were 25 points behind us playing with Lovren.

No one player can fix the team’s problems. Liverpool didn’t stop conceding until they got Alisson to replace Mignolet. But Van Dijk is a huge part of their defense, supported by other players in their team.

It’s the same thing if we have KDB creating a million chances in a game but Wilfried Bony upfront couldn’t score for the life of him. Does that make Kev overrated then? Of course not.

The dippers tend overrate their players to hell but Van Dijk is world class, there’s no denying that.

 

[Ezzy]

I don’t disagree with that. The point I was making was that the way they set up isn’t too different than whatevery body else is doing. He’s amazing for Liverpool, would’ve been amazing for us as well.

Most top teams, except the rags, don't set up like that though.

Liverpool focus on defensive solidarity first & create exclusively from the full-backs(and false 9).

So even in transitions or during counters, the LFC defense is rarely exposed as much as most top teams would be.

Van Dijk's a master at passive defending & has a good long ball, which is perfect for Klopp's style of play.

Be passive in transitions & within seconds he'll have numerous bodies around him to help deal with the threat.

The guy knows what his strength & weaknesses are.

 

[ctid1894]

No one player can fix the team’s problems. Liverpool didn’t stop conceding until they got Alisson to replace Mignolet. But Van Dijk is a huge part of their defense, supported by other players in their team.

It’s the same thing if we have KDB creating a million chances in a game but Wilfried Bony upfront couldn’t score for the life of him. Does that make Kev overrated then? Of course not.

The dippers tend overrate their players to hell but Van Dijk is world class, there’s no denying that.

Otamendi would look top class in that Liverpool team instead of VVD. The intensity and aggression of their forwards and midfielders is unreal, it means the CB's have one job in 95% of games; to stop strikers getting in behind the defence.

At City we want our CB's not only to stop strikers getting in behind but we also expect them to be aggressive as part of our pressing which requires more tactical awareness, intelligence and decision making skills. That's why the players who succeed are players like Kompany, Laporte and Garcia. Even Fernandinho has the intelligence as a defensive midfielder to look very good at CB.

Stones and Otamendi are only capable when we're pressing with intensity and aggression and they only have one job to do. When our intensity and aggression levels drop, they're fucked because they suddenly have to engage their brain and for all intents and purposes they're lacking in that department compared to our expectation levels. They're both very good players and would be very good players in 99% of teams because they wouldn't be required to do as much decision making.

 

[Burtonblue]

Man, I don't think we realise how unbelievable a signing this would be. One of the best CBs in the world, making 4 consecutive appearances in the Serie A TOTS. Offensively, having him in the box would help us tremendously for corners and defensively, he's got the pace, strength and aerial ability to snuff out the inevitable counter attacks. Genuinely see us as being formidable in Europe if we get it overturned.

I agree
He’s at least as good as VVD and would be our most significant signing if it were to happen

 

[OliMCFC]

That's why we have Fernandinho to help the young lads for the next 12 months minimum.

Fernandinho is also 35 and not a natural CB. We need more than 12 months from a natural CB. I want Fernandinho around, but he should be transitioning into coaching in my view and playing less and less, preserve his energy

 

[waspish]

We should make Fernandinho one of our coaches.

 

[Ezzy]

Stones and Otamendi are only capable when we're pressing with intensity and aggression and they only have one job to do. When our intensity and aggression levels drop, they're fucked because they suddenly have to engage their brain and for all intents and purposes they're lacking in that department compared to our expectation levels.

Stones & Otamendi(TOTS) looked world class in 17/18 when the pressing & aggression from the front 6 was at its peak.

Fernandinho is also 35 and not a natural CB. We need more than 12 months from a natural CB. I want Fernandinho around, but he should be transitioning into coaching in my view and playing less and less, preserve his energy

1) Who was our best CB this season? (out of a bad bunch admittedly)

2) Laporte won 43 of his first 50 PL games with Stones & Otamendi as the main partners. Can he be the leader of our backline next season?

3) If(hypothetical scenario) we can guarantee that Laporte goes a full season with no injuries, Do we still need to buy an "experienced leader at CB"?

4) in 12 months, could Garcia possibly improve at the same rate as Foden?

 

[richards30]

Really hope we can sort this ASAP! Gives confidence that Napoli are splashing the cash already? Must be getting big money from us?

 

[Great Kompany]

Here are our pair of Center Backs and how they perform normally against certain clubs (IMHO)

With full backs remaining the same and left back position still a problem

• Ota/Stones - Could work against bottom half of the teams but some pacy wingers or technically gifted forwards would give them a tough time.Won't work against Leicester/Wolves/Spurs let alone Chelsea or Liverpool
• Laporte/Stones OR Laporte/Ota : Will work against most teams but will have problems against top teams like Liverpool even United. Won't work in the Champions league imo. Bayern/PSG/Real etc will run rings around them and with Ota/Stones having a mistake in them every match and such close margins in the CL, this won't be a good idea
• Laporte/Others : Others include Garcia/Ferna/THB. This pair would hold on its own against most teams in the decreasing order of Garcia/Ferna/THB on how compatible they would be with Laporte. Champions league night or a title decider at Anfield , this particular group of players may face some problems keeping the defence intact. The partners of Laporte being too young or too old
• Laporte/New 24 year old defender : May go bust or hit depending on whether we get another Laporte or Mangala. Would still cost a huge amount. Wage may not be an issue but as far as i can see our scouts are incapable of finding a decent Pep kind of defender who doesn't cost upward of 50 mils
• Laporte/New 29 year old defender: Will cost more or same as the young defender. Won't get a decade out of him but will make an immediate impact( if its Koulibaly). And the evidence on hand suggest that a defence pairing of Laporte/Koulibaly would survive all even a visit to beloved Anfield or Allianz Arena
• No Laporte/New defender : With Koulibaly(as the new defender) chances are there defending in league won't be such a problem. But come CL time things can go either way. Well I still feel a Koulibaly/Garcia pair can still take of Real Madrid. If the new defender is someone young of the Upa/Reuben Dias ilk then again things can go either way. This pairing would be too young to survive persistent attacks on our defence.
• No Laporte/No New defender : We can just look at this season and figure out that happens then

No new signings are safe but depending on the precarious situation we are in wrt to CAS and the Covid pandemic, a deal of 45-55 million would be perfect for Koulibaly. And even though i am a big fan to Koulibaly and deal of 80-90 million may change my mind too. Way too much. Bring on a younger defender then.

Till then Team Koulibaly!

 

[ctid1894]

Here are our pair of Center Backs and how they perform normally against certain clubs (IMHO)

With full backs remaining the same and left back position still a problem

• Ota/Stones - Could work against bottom half of the teams but some pacy wingers or technically gifted forwards would give them a tough time.Won't work against Leicester/Wolves/Spurs let alone Chelsea or Liverpool
• Laporte/Stones OR Laporte/Ota : Will work against most teams but will have problems against top teams like Liverpool even United. Won't work in the Champions league imo. Bayern/PSG/Real etc will run rings around them and with Ota/Stones having a mistake in them every match and such close margins in the CL, this won't be a good idea
• Laporte/Others : Others include Garcia/Ferna/THB. This pair would hold on its own against most teams in the decreasing order of Garcia/Ferna/THB on how compatible they would be with Laporte. Champions league night or a title decider at Anfield , this particular group of players may face some problems keeping the defence intact. The partners of Laporte being too young or too old
• Laporte/New 24 year old defender : May go bust or hit depending on whether we get another Laporte or Mangala. Would still cost a huge amount. Wage may not be an issue but as far as i can see our scouts are incapable of finding a decent Pep kind of defender who doesn't cost upward of 50 mils
• Laporte/New 29 year old defender: Will cost more or same as the young defender. Won't get a decade out of him but will make an immediate impact( if its Koulibaly). And the evidence on hand suggest that a defence pairing of Laporte/Koulibaly would survive all even a visit to beloved Anfield or Allianz Arena
• No Laporte/New defender : With Koulibaly(as the new defender) chances are there defending in league won't be such a problem. But come CL time things can go either way. Well I still feel a Koulibaly/Garcia pair can still take of Real Madrid. If the new defender is someone young of the Upa/Reuben Dias ilk then again things can go either way. This pairing would be too young to survive persistent attacks on our defence.
• No Laporte/No New defender : We can just look at this season and figure out that happens then

No new signings are safe but depending on the precarious situation we are in wrt to CAS and the Covid pandemic, a deal of 45-55 million would be perfect for Koulibaly. And even though i am a big fan to Koulibaly and deal of 80-90 million may change my mind too. Way too much. Bring on a younger defender then.

Till then Team Koulibaly!

As valid as your opinion is, please don't try to make it out as evidence. There is absolutely no evidence Laporte and Koulibaly would survive everywhere, it's a pretty silly statement. If the other 9 players aren't on their game, they would be exposed just like any other CB you care to name in that situation.

You also state anything other than Laporte and Koulibaly would get rings run around them at Barcelona, Madrid etc. Well Otamendi and Fernandinho for 2/3rds of the game survived pretty well in Madrid, in the main because our work rate from the forwards and midfield was so high and protected them brilliantly.

There's far more to it than just CB's. Although you do make a very good point with the price, if we can get Koulibaly for £45m, then it reduces the risk a lot and might just sway the balance of opinion, personally I would find it somewhat understandable even though my personal preference would still be Garcia, Tosin, THB with Fern as the proven option if they struggle.

 

[OliMCFC]

1) Who was our best CB this season? (out of a bad bunch admittedly)

2) Laporte won 43 of his first 50 PL games with Stones & Otamendi as the main partners. Can he be the leader of our backline next season?

3) If(hypothetical scenario) we can guarantee that Laporte goes a full season with no injuries, Do we still need to buy an "experienced leader at CB"?

4) in 12 months, could Garcia possibly improve at the same rate as Foden?

1. Fernandinho - but who's to say he can withstand 3 games a week? He's looked leggier as the season's gone on.
2. Stones and Otamendi both were still good options. And don't forget 14 games, 3 conceded, 14 wins alongside Kompany - THE Leader
3. Yes, because Stones and Otamendi both need to go.
4. Potentially and I sure hope so, but I would still want Laporte and Koulibaly ahead for the time being.

 

[ctid1894]

Fernandinho is also 35 and not a natural CB. We need more than 12 months from a natural CB. I want Fernandinho around, but he should be transitioning into coaching in my view and playing less and less, preserve his energy

Mascherano wasn't a natural CB, he wasn't big or fast either and he was brilliant over a sustained period of time at Barcelona because he was tactical intelligent, had amazing awareness. Fernandinho is exactly the same, yes he's been physically outstanding for a number of years but 90% of his game is tactical intelligence and awareness putting him in the right position at the right time. If Garcia, Tosin or THB succeed which they've got as good a chance as any, then we don't need anyone in 12 months or for the next 12 years potentially.

 

[ctid1894]

1. Fernandinho - but who's to say he can withstand 3 games a week? He's looked leggier as the season's gone on.
2. Stones and Otamendi both were still good options. And don't forget 14 games, 3 conceded, 14 wins alongside Kompany - THE Leader
3. Yes, because Stones and Otamendi both need to go.
4. Potentially and I sure hope so, but I would still want Laporte and Koulibaly ahead for the time being.

No player is capable of playing 3 games a week over a sustained period, it's physically impossible hence why we rotate so heavily and Liverpool purposefully get knocked out of the domestic cup competitions. If you think Koulibaly is the exception then prepare to be sadly mistaken.

 

[Great Kompany]

As valid as your opinion is, please don't try to make it out as evidence. There is absolutely no evidence Laporte and Koulibaly would survive everywhere, it's a pretty silly statement. If the other 9 players aren't on their game, they would be exposed just like any other CB you care to name in that situation.

You also state anything other than Laporte and Koulibaly would get rings run around them at Barcelona, Madrid etc. Well Otamendi and Fernandinho for 2/3rds of the game survived pretty well in Madrid, in the main because our work rate from the forwards and midfield was so high and protected them brilliantly.

There's far more to it than just CB's. Although you do make a very good point with the price, if we can get Koulibaly for £45m, then it reduces the risk a lot and might just sway the balance of opinion, personally I would find it somewhat understandable even though my personal preference would still be Garcia, Tosin, THB with Fern as the proven option if they struggle.

These are evidences because of matches these pairs played and the subsequent results. I can agree with the fact that there are 9 more players to take care of the team but we are talking about our defensive frailties and few of those pairs i have mentioned do disappoint us from time to time.

WRT Laporte and Koulibaly,the probabilities of this pair having a good game is more than say Laporte/Dias or Laporte/Garcia. Nothing is certain in this world but pairing two top defenders(of the Top 5 itw) with each other will probably bring good results.

And lastly talking about the 17/18 season when everything went according to the plan is not good enough to justify Stones/Ota inclusion. It has been two years now where Ota has become older and Stones - Well I don't really understand what's wrong with Stones but he looks fragile. Keeping them doesn't make sense to me and apparently to Pep too. So let's see what happens!

 

[ctid1894]

These are evidences because of matches these pairs played and the subsequent results. I can agree with the fact that there are 9 more players to take care of the team but we are talking about our defensive frailties and few of those pairs i have mentioned do disappoint us from time to time.

WRT Laporte and Koulibaly,the probabilities of this pair having a good game is more than say Laporte/Dias or Laporte/Garcia. Nothing is certain in this world but pairing two top defenders(of the Top 5 itw) with each other will probably bring good results.

And lastly talking about the 17/18 season when everything went according to the plan is not good enough to justify Stones/Ota inclusion. It has been two years now where Ota has become older and Stones - Well I don't really understand what's wrong with Stones but he looks fragile. Keeping them doesn't make sense to me and apparently to Pep too. So let's see what happens!

Results aren't based soley on CB's, to suggest so is disingenuous in the extreme. Just like the 4-0 result on Thursday doesn't make VVD suddenly a shit defender, there's too many variables to try to use that as evidence.

 

[Ezzy]

These are evidences because of matches these pairs played and the subsequent results. I can agree with the fact that there are 9 more players to take care of the team but we are talking about our defensive frailties and few of those pairs i have mentioned do disappoint us from time to time.

WRT Laporte and Koulibaly,the probabilities of this pair having a good game is more than say Laporte/Dias or Laporte/Garcia. Nothing is certain in this world but pairing two top defenders(of the Top 5 itw) with each other will probably bring good results.

A mistake from Delph ruined what would've been a deserved clean sheet in the 1st leg against Tottenham.

We were in red hot form in the League.

2. Stones and Otamendi both were still good options. And don't forget 14 games, 3 conceded, 14 wins alongside Kompany - THE Leader

The 2nd Leg v. Tottenham

Laporte was partnered with Kompany. We had the perfect start to the game, with a wonder goal to level the aggregate in the first 5 minutes.

Everyone knew we were a better team than Tottenham, but even they probably didn't envision going a goal down so quickly. We sucked the life out of them before the game even began... and then 5 minutes later...
Man City 1 - 2 Tottenham (1- 3 Agg)



Napoli are Facing Liverpool at Anfield. Last Match day of the CL group stage.
Napoli is ahead of Liverpool, So a draw would be enough for Napoli to go through.

after a quiet 30 minutes to start the game, suddenly...
Liverpool 1 - 0 Napoli