The Scottish Politics thread

[sd92]

Possibly, but it may also be born of a genuine wish for Scottish independence in England - it was the Scots that voted against it iirc.

Indeed. Who knows

 

[Ban-jani]

How would you personally vote in that instance?
Why do you think the English (and presumably the Welsh and Northern Irish) should get a say in it?

Do you think it would return an overwhelming result if they all voted on it?

P.s. a fairly large reason for the desire for indy, is to no longer be ‘ruled’ by the English voters that overwhelmingly vote in another direction from Scotland so I can’t see something like this being popular.

The latter reason is why it’s so ridiculous. A vote in Scotland is stronger than many in England. Scotland has devolved powers and its own parliament.

I’d understand if they were asking for more devolution and if Sturgeon was suggesting the same of all corners of the kingdom, that would be reasonable.

 

[blueparrot]

I don’t think it would become a one party state.

Firstly, like UKIP, the SNP’s aim is for an iScotland.
So I wonder if they would disband if it was delivered.

I know many people that say they would not vote yellow in an indy Scotland but continue to vote that way to ensure the message is clear.

I’ve had a discussion with someone on here before who votes, or has voted, SNP but does not want an indy scotland - which I must admit amazed me. I know no one that votes SNP that would vote no.

Anyway, I don’t think it would become a one party state.
I expect labour -or a similar incarnation- would be supported.

Nothing like UKIP, the SNP have been in power for 10 years, elected primarily on domestic policies, by an electorate that hasn't wanted independence, but been broadly satisfied with their domestic policies. So unlike UKIP aren't a single policy party.
They wouldn't disband , just cerry on as they are. Labour have a big problem in that the SNP are firmly encamped on the left of centre ground Labour need to challenge. The tories made inroads under Davidson but not enough to challenge, and since she went all theat ground has been lost.

 

[sd92]

Nothing like UKIP, the SNP have been in power for 10 years, elected primarily on domestic policies, by an electorate that hasn't wanted independence, but been broadly satisfied with their domestic policies. So unlike UKIP aren't a single policy party.
They wouldn't disband , just cerry on as they are. Labour have a big problem in that the SNP are firmly encamped on the left of centre ground Labour need to challenge. The tories made inroads under Davidson but not enough to challenge, and since she went all theat ground has been lost.

You raise a good point that I hadn’t considered prior, in that the desire was low when the SNP was voted in.

But as far as I am aware the SNP came about to gain Scottish independence, so whilst you are right they are not a single issue party like UKIP, their primary aim is and always has been independence.

As for you comment regarding a scottish vote holding more power than and english vote, I don’t understand what you mean.

 

[blueparrot]

You raise a good point that I hadn’t considered prior, in that the desire was low when the SNP was voted in.

But as far as I am aware the SNP came about to gain Scottish independence, so whilst you are right they are not a single issue party like UKIP, their primary aim is and always has been independence.

As for you comment regarding a scottish vote holding more power than and english vote, I don’t understand what you mean.

Not sure where you think I said about the power of the vote thing, I didn't intend it anywhere.
As for the reason the SNP came about, yes you are right it was purely an independence party. However at the point of devolution, it looked at the time we would have a permanent Labour government, indeed the system was set up to try and prevent that by at least ensuring that they would need to share power with another party. At that point Salmond and the SNP realised they would need to become a credible governing party to have any hope of convincing Scottish voters to trust them to stand any chance of independence. the last decade has been all about that and deleloping as a ruling party, and slowly but surely , helped by the English tories and Johnson that seems to be happening.

 

[mat]

I don’t think it would become a one party state.

Firstly, like UKIP, the SNP’s aim is for an iScotland.
So I wonder if they would disband if it was delivered.

I know many people that say they would not vote yellow in an indy Scotland but continue to vote that way to ensure the message is clear.

I’ve had a discussion with someone on here before who votes, or has voted, SNP but does not want an indy scotland - which I must admit amazed me. I know no one that votes SNP that would vote no.

Anyway, I don’t think it would become a one party state.
I expect labour -or a similar incarnation- would be supported.

Full disclosure here.

Despite being English I donated to the Scottish Socialist party in the past. I know both Colin Fox and Tommy Sheridan from my days of being active at a national level of my union. Is there a viable left wing movement up there that could challenge?

 

[Gabriel]

Full disclosure here.

Despite being English I donated to the Scottish Socialist party in the past. I know both Colin Fox and Tommy Sheridan from my days of being active at a national level of my union. Is there a viable left wing movement up there that could challenge?

Do worry when a post contains the words ‘full disclosure’ and ‘Tommy Sheridan’...

Don’t think there is any credible party, save his own Solidarity(?) party, with no impact nationally nor locally. The SNP is probably plenty left enough for most.

 

[blueparrot]

Do worry when a post contains the words ‘full disclosure’ and ‘Tommy Sheridan’...

Don’t think there is any credible party, save his own Solidarity(?) party, with no impact nationally nor locally. The SNP is probably plenty left enough for most.

There is no credible left wing party in Scotland, anymoe than there is in the UK. Simply because, as Labour proved any further left of the SNP, or centrist Labour isn't wanted and is unelectable. Sheridan was amusing but never relevant.

 

[Gabriel]

There is no credible left wing party in Scotland, anymoe than there is in the UK. Simply because, as Labour proved any further left of the SNP, or centrist Labour isn't wanted and is unelectable. Sheridan was amusing but never relevant.

True. They went from 1 initial seat to 6 in 2003, yet the Greens went from 1 to 7 in that time.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

So did Boris’s visit and pep talk help or harm the government today.

 

[blueparrot]

So did Boris’s visit and pep talk help or harm the government today.

Neither, haven't come across anyone that's even mentioned it to be honest.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Neither, haven't come across anyone that's even mentioned it to be honest.

Caught an English reporter on CNN at lunchtime saying he’s noticed a big change in attitude towards the Union recently With people he talks to.

Little hope for cross Atlantic trade deal or trade deal with the EU by year end., not helping.

Thought Boris going up there was all about reassurance.

 

[blueparrot]

Caught an English reporter on CNN at lunchtime saying he’s noticed a big change in attitude towards the Union recently With people he talks to.

Little hope for cross Atlantic trade deal or trade deal with the EU by year end., not helping.

Thought Boris going up there was all about reassurance.

I think there is definitely an upswing in support for independence and it's why he came up, I just think in general the attitude even amongst non independence supporters is pretty indifferent to him at the moment. A very common statement I keep hearing being 'not a fan of her politics but I'm listening to Nicola not Boris'. Even my lifelong Tory voting mum still in Rochdale is saying it, and regretting voting for Boris in November.

 

[JRockBlues]

I think there is definately an upswing in support for independence and it's why he came up, I just think in general the attitude even amongst no independence supporters is pretty indifferent ti him at the moment. A very common statement I keep hearin being 'not a fan of her politics but I'm listening to Nicola not Boris'. Even my lifelong Tory voting mum still in Rochdale is saying it, and regretting voting for Boris in November.

Absolutely...

 

[Ban-jani]

Absolutely...

Ahh yes those highly reliable polls.

Thank god they were correct when remain was polling as comfortable favourite the day before the referendum 2016.

 

[Fame Monster]

I'm not against referenda but I think foisting a devolution referendum on the Scots straight after 18 years of Tory Government has to be one of the worst mistakes New Labour made.

Devolution would always lead to division and I think it's looking increasingly likely we'll see the break-up of the Union even though I think it'll be a disaster for all concerned.

 

[blueparrot]

I'm not against referenda but I think foisting a devolution referendum on the Scots straight after 18 years of Tory Government has to be one of the worst mistakes New Labour made.

Devolution would always lead to division and I think it's looking increasingly likely we'll see the break-up of the Union even though I think it'll be a disaster for all concerned.

Whether it was a mistake or not it was the right thing to do, personally think if there hadn’t been devolution 23 years ago then Scotland would have demanded and probably voted for independence before now.
Think the break up of the union if it comes though will be a direct consequence of Brexit and Johnson’s governments version of brexit. Without both those things doubt there would be any appetite for it it the general population after the last vote.

 

[Ban-jani]

Whether it was a mistake or not it was the right thing to do, personally think if there hadn’t been devolution 23 years ago then Scotland would have demanded and probably voted for independence before now.
Think the break up of the union if it comes though will be a direct consequence of Brexit and Johnson’s governments version of brexit. Without both those things doubt there would be any appetite for it it the general population after the last vote.

Let’s not pretend the Scots Indy movement isn’t far more toxic, far more ridiculous and far more nationalistic than Brexit.

For me it’s like responding to stubbing your toe by blowing your foot off with a shotgun, for the Scottish people.

The SNP conveniently leave all detail out and the suckers to the left, north of the border, swallow the generalised sound bites she spews.

Who’s currency will Scotland use?

How long will it take to rejoin the EU?

What will the England-Scotland border look like?

If the UK doesn’t agree a FTA with the EU, how will Scottish business, which is deep rooted in England too, such as RBS, cope?

Who’s armed forces will defend Scotland?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Let’s not pretend the Scots Indy movement isn’t far more toxic, far more ridiculous and far more nationalistic than Brexit.

For me it’s like responding to stubbing your toe by blowing your foot off with a shotgun, the the Scottish people.

The SNP conveniently leave all detail out and the suckers to the left, north of the border, swallow the generalised sound bites she spews.

Who’s currency will Scotland use?

How long will it take to rejoin the EU?

What will the England-Scotland border look like?

If the UK doesn’t agree a FTA with the EU, how will Scottish business, which is deep rooted in England too, such as RBS, cope?

Who’s armed forces will defend Scotland?

The answer to all of the above would to become a wholly integrated EU state with a hard border at Gretna. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but I think the Scottish economy would currently be running to high a deficit and missing other criteria for EU/euro entry? The SNP need to maintain support, have another referendum and do both at the same time as oil prices recover to make a go of it.

 

[ganganvince]

Let’s not pretend the Scots Indy movement isn’t far more toxic, far more ridiculous and far more nationalistic than Brexit.

For me it’s like responding to stubbing your toe by blowing your foot off with a shotgun, for the Scottish people.

The SNP conveniently leave all detail out and the suckers to the left, north of the border, swallow the generalised sound bites she spews.

Who’s currency will Scotland use?

How long will it take to rejoin the EU?

What will the England-Scotland border look like?

If the UK doesn’t agree a FTA with the EU, how will Scottish business, which is deep rooted in England too, such as RBS, cope?

Who’s armed forces will defend Scotland?

How much of the national debt will they inherit?