The Scottish Politics thread

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Mëtal Bikër said:
That and the majority of the oil belongs to the Shetland Islands who have stated that if Scotland were to take the Shetlands out of the UK, they would vote to be independent from Scotland and apply to rejoin the UK. The whole "sCoTlAnD's OiL" argument is often poorly argued. If Scots Nats think Scotland can be compared to oil rich Norway upon independence, they've a rude awakening in store. Scotland needs to look outside oil revenue as its source of prosperity.
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and they are. In the SGC report, any oil revenues will go into an investment fund (that is where the comparison with Norway comes from) rather than being used to fund the current account.
 
Ban-jani said:
Nah I did, you’re not getting the message I’m trying to put across.

I’ve said you can go but don’t expect good faith following it in negotiations, England will negotiate until the very last to ensure we get a favourable deal and as the senior partner, it shouldn’t be too difficult.

You can have a vote as far as I’m concerned once Brexit has finally settled.

If you go, I want an English independence vote as the UK is done then.
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good faith from Johnson and the incompetents? No I don't expect that at all.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Legally, I'm not sure anyone can stop Scotland continuing to use £.
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The question is why would sturgeon and her cronies want to still be subservient to the UK BOE and interest rates. They would have no input into monetary policy. Bizarre idea for any independent country.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
and they are. In the SGC report, any oil revenues will go into an investment fund (that is where the comparison with Norway comes from) rather than being used to fund the current account.
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Oil revenues lol. They hasn't been any for 4 or 5 five years. Unlikely to bounce back anytime soon. Plenty of subsidisation. I am sure sturgeon would love the opportunity to start shoring up the NS oil reserves like the UK has done the past 10 years with huge tax breaks.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
good faith from Johnson and the incompetents? No I don't expect that at all.
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Whether it’s him or Starmer England will negotiate as firmly as possible to come out better, that’s just the way it works.

I just hope that Scotland is ready to accept a border, a new currency, funding their own police and military and Health Service.


The disruption from Brexit is bad, this will be catastrophic.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
The question is why would sturgeon and her cronies want to still be subservient to the UK BOE and interest rates. They would have no input into monetary policy. Bizarre idea for any independent country.
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Yeah, I agree. So the most recent proposal which is contained in the 2018 SGC report is that Scotland would retain £ for a (prolonged) transition period before moving over to its own currency (unspecified but presumably Euro). There are also fairly sensible recommendations for setting up a Scottish central bank and fiscal government framework which would all need to be in place before moving to a new currency. The SNP party partially rejected this at their own conference as the transition period was not considered ambitious enough and for the reasons you state. Others more pragmatic see the tie to the BoE as being something that could be swallowed as alignment between the two economies will be fairly close for a period.

Other countries do use another countries currency - Mexico with the USA for example so it is not unheard of. Independent Ireland was tied to the BoE and sterling for a lengthy period although I'm not sure that is a good example.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Oil revenues lol. They hasn't been any for 4 or 5 five years. Unlikely to bounce back anytime soon. Plenty of subsidisation. I am sure sturgeon would love the opportunity to start shoring up the NS oil reserves like the UK has done the past 10 years with huge tax breaks.
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almost £4bn revenue from the stats I am looking at.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Yeah, I agree. So the most recent proposal which is contained in the 2018 SGC report is that Scotland would retain £ for a (prolonged) transition period before moving over to its own currency (unspecified but presumably Euro). There are also fairly sensible recommendations for setting up a Scottish central bank and fiscal government framework which would all need to be in place before moving to a new currency. The SNP party partially rejected this at their own conference as the transition period was not considered ambitious enough and for the reasons you state. Others more pragmatic see the tie to the BoE as being something that could be swallowed as alignment between the two economies will be fairly close for a period.

Other countries do use another countries currency - Mexico with the USA for example so it is not unheard of. Independent Ireland was tied to the BoE and sterling for a lengthy period although I'm not sure that is a good example.
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Sturgeon wants to be part of the EU. To do so you would have to adopt the EURO. I think that's a stipulation for new member states. One of the problems with that is Spain has said it would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU as it would give weight to the catalan indepence movement. These issues are glossed over by sturgeon as nothing issues whenever she is asked. She speaks very well but underneath i think she is just a lady of straw and the SNP has little real detailed policy on how an independent Scotland would function, like that paper they produced which was very wishy washy and glossed over the potential major issues. Finally you have the issues of a one party state. Not a very welcoming proposition when you think about it. It's bad enough in the UK with such an incompetent bunch of politicians but at least there is an opposition. Lol
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Sturgeon wants to be part of the EU. To do so you would have to adopt the EURO. I think that's a stipulation for new member states. One of the problems with that is Spain has said it would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU as it would give weight to the catalan indepence movement. These issues are glossed over by sturgeon as nothing issues whenever she is asked. She speaks very well but underneath i think she is just a lady of straw and the SNP has little real detailed policy on how an independent Scotland would function, like that paper they produced which was very wishy washy and glossed over the potential major issues. Finally you have the issues of a one party state. Not a very welcoming proposition when you think about it. It's bad enough in the UK with such an incompetent bunch of politicians but at least there is an opposition. Lol
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She has been very impressive personally during the Covid crisis which is reflected in her current ratings so I personally don’t think your view of her is fair. If you a referring to the SGC report then I thought it was a pretty good piece of work that certainly added to the debate. You are right about a one nation state but what does that say about the Opposition in Scotland?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
almost £4bn revenue from the stats I am looking at.
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[/URL]

https://www.odi.org › news › 843-c...
Chancellor announces tax incentives for North Sea oil and ...


https://www.theguardian.com › ...
British taxpayers face £24bn bill for tax relief to oil and gas firms ...

Plus huge tax incentives given to companies to invest in new fields.

Take the tax breaks and subsidies out and the 4b doesn't look so good does it?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
The only anglophobic nat I am aware of was Salmon and you are spot on about him.
Where are you referencing the others?
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You're not denying there are Scots Nats that have opinions like the one i've mentioned are you?

Where else could I possibly be refererencing them? Social media, general media, discussions, open society. Chill.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
and they are. In the SGC report, any oil revenues will go into an investment fund (that is where the comparison with Norway comes from) rather than being used to fund the current account.
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Oil is not sustainable, especially in a Climate Change global incentive. Do you really want to be a nation that profits from poison?
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
[/URL]

https://www.odi.org › news › 843-c...
Chancellor announces tax incentives for North Sea oil and ...


https://www.theguardian.com › ...
British taxpayers face £24bn bill for tax relief to oil and gas firms ...

Plus huge tax incentives given to companies to invest in new fields.

Take the tax breaks and subsidies out and the 4b doesn't look so good does it?
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www.statista.com

UK North Sea revenue 2025| Statista

In 2024/25, the UK government's North Sea revenue was 4.6 billion British pounds, compared with 5.4 billion in the previous reporting year.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
You're not denying there are Scots Nats that have opinions like the one i've mentioned are you?

Where else could I possibly be refererencing them? Social media, general media, discussions, open society. Chill.
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I’m asking for specifics rather than generalities as anti westminster is often confused for anti English. And no I am not denying it exists but I genuinely don’t see or hear anti English sentiment.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I’m asking for specifics rather than generalities as anti westminster is often confused for anti English. And no I am not denying it exists but I genuinely don’t see or hear anti English sentiment.
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I already stated that it's not the majority opinion, but you cannot deny that is also exists amongst some Scots Nats. Press one hard enough on the issue and out it comes.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
www.statista.com

UK North Sea revenue 2025| Statista

In 2024/25, the UK government's North Sea revenue was 4.6 billion British pounds, compared with 5.4 billion in the previous reporting year.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
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Any revenue is dwarfed by the decomissioning costs alone which are estimated to be between 39b and 80b which the UK taxpayer is going to have to pick up. Was that mentioned in the SNP independence paper I wonder??
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Mate, I’m not disagreeing with you. Merely pointing out that the proposed use of oil revenues is not to fund the here and now public expenditure.
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As I said earlier, be sure to be one of those to tell that to any and all ignorant Scots Nats who believe all Scotland's problems can be solved by "the oil" because there are a few.

I ain't your enemy here; you want to be independent, be independent, but don't for one minute think it won't be extremely difficult. Just like with brexit, so long as people embrace there will be hardships, it's not going to be better early on and will require hard work, but want Scottish independence anyway because you want it on principle that its preferable to the current situation, you'll have my respect because you'll be sticking by what you believe in and not basing it on said pie-in-the-sky sentiments about it being "better" as i've seen some Scots Nats do who, when pressed on it, reveal anglophobic sentiments.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Mate, I’m not disagreeing with you. Merely pointing out that the proposed use of oil revenues is not to fund the here and now public expenditure.
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It will take anywhere between 40 and 80yrs of oil revenues just to pay for the decomissioning of the oil fields. I expect sturgeon would like the UK to pick up that bill?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
As I said earlier, be sure to be one of those to tell that to any and all ignorant Scots Nats who believe all Scotland's problems can be solved by "the oil" because there are a few.

I ain't your enemy here; you want to be independent, be independent, but don't for one minute think it won't be extremely difficult. Just like with brexit, so long as people embrace there will be hardships, it's not going to be better early on and will require hard work, but want Scottish independence anyway because you want it on principle that its preferable to the current situation, you'll have my respect because you'll be sticking by what you believe in and not basing it on said pie-in-the-sky sentiments about it being "better" as i've seen some Scots Nats do who, when pressed on it, reveal anglophobic sentiments.
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The way I feel just now I would pay good money to get away from the fuckwits running the U.K. that’s not the most positive reason but it’s true. I see no sign that this shitshow will end anytime soon.

the Scottish government need to present their plans, warts and all, to the Scottish people. If we then choose independence it is with open eyes regarding the long and tricky road taken. Better we make our own mistakes than have those of others foisted on us.
 
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