George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

Bigga said:
Ask Daniel Shaver about your demagoguery.

Oh, you can't he's dead because he "moved his hand".
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That was on the officer for his ridiculous commands, and it's probably the worst shooting I've seen - didn't gain that much traction tho for some reason
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Police officers make mistakes. It's their job not to. They are the ones with the power of the law. Their job is to protect the citizenry. A police officer who shoots someone for an innocent hand movement has made a mistake and not done his/her job correctly.

You have a dollar to spend on training -- either on the policeman to prevent such things from happening, or on the "citizenry" to ensure they don't twitch involuntarily. Which do you spend it on?
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The thing is tho, and I'm just pointing out the obvious, an innocent hand movement doesn't always appear innocent. You now that you're just putting your waistband up but a cop doesn't know, and if he has been telling you to keep your hands up it isn't unreasonable for the cop to think you're reaching for a gun.

I'd spend on both, the latter doesn't need a lot spent on it anyway, the media could do most of it - if they cared about people rather than inflaming things.
Something for everyone to keep in mind is that you don't know why the cop has been called. Yea, you're being inconvenienced and you know you haven't done anything but for all you know someone wearing similar clothes to you may have just tried to kidnap someone's kid or stabbed someone.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Dude,



That’s ridiculous hyperbole and doesn’t deserve a response


As always, without context.


In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m not the officers attorney, and I’m glad you’re not a spokesperson for me.


I thought you were trying to make a salient point for a second there and then you basically said white men are so racist they simply shoot them out of centuries of fear.



Does the cycle break when people stop drawing weapons of the police or the other way around?

We are about to have a Presidential election. Listen to the rhetoric about guns, violence, law and order.

We may, as you intimate, be approaching an inflection point. Had a black armed militia “invaded” the Michigan State Capitol, we might be talking about the first Govt vs Armed Militia gun battle since Ruby Ridge or Waco.

The hard questions are:

1) With over 300,000,000 guns in Americans hands, can you put that toothpaste back in the tube?

2) Do you have the stomach and, more importantly, the votes for a defining challenge, or change, to 2A?

3) Who is the politician that dares to try that?

4) Sadly, I have to ask the serious question of whether they would survive such an attempt?

One of the major intractable problems is that there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of gun laws across America. The problem is the jaw-abiding gun owner (me) follows them, while bad guys don’t give a damn about any laws, let alone gun laws!M

As I have said repeatedly on here, I am fairly liberal (esp by American standards), but I’m a staunch advocate of law and order. I think personal violence is the scourge of society and I don’t believe that humans are basically decent people, I believe that they have a decent albeit very thin veneer, which, when scratched, reveals an entirely different animal.

I believe that everybody WANTS to be decent, but socialization is different for everyone. Some children marinate in war and they have seen more AK-47s than kites, more death than triumphs, more loss than success. There are others who have lived gilded lives and never known anything but the bubble that wealth provides.

However, I believe that if you take them out if those surroundings, place them in a Lord of the Flies scenario, you would see who they really are, and I’m not sure how pretty it would be.

Is there fear of the angry black man in America? Absolutely! Heck, there is fear of the angry black woman in America. And, there are examples of each every day. However, that ignores a simple fact...everyone of the videos I showed you the person firing the gun was either white or unknown (even though it appears the last one was black).

Gun crime is not a black vs white issue, it’s a gun issue!
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Some observations.

You state ‘Cops watch videos like this all the time in training.’ How does this help? Surely training is about the correct way to conduct a traffic stop. Positions to take, how to approach etc. How does watching videos of cops being shot do anything other than install fear in cops? ’Fearful’ people do not approach situations calmly. Giving ‘fearful’ people guns and authority over other people is just going to lead to a lot of dead people.

The depiction of ‘blacks equals trouble’ as part of LEO training is a societal issue. The history of black suppression in rooted in fear. Keep your foot on the back of their necks otherwise they will rise against you. Keep them poor, ignorant and excluded from main society otherwise they will rise against you. When slavery went, segregation and exclusion was the next step in suppression of blacks.

Man is a social animal, we have a desire to fit in, to know our place within the societies that we live in, fundamentally the vast majority are decent, but if you treat people if they are not, or a segment of people as ‘trouble’ or always ‘angry’ then you creating your own problems. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Again, just my two cents.
 
Black man shot 7 times in the back. I’m sure there are people falling over themselves to defend the actions of the coppers but please don’t embarrass yourselves by typing the reasons

“he should have done what he was told”

Trigger happy cunts, and that’s the end of it
 
Blue Hefner said:
Black man shot 7 times in the back. I’m sure there are people falling over themselves to defend the actions of the coppers but please don’t embarrass yourselves by typing the reasons

“he should have done what he was told”

Trigger happy cunts, and that’s the end of it
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And Kenosha police DO NOT wear body cams!! So, essentially, it'll be their word against Jacob Blake's... but thank goodness for mobile phones, eh...?




 
Silva_Spell said:
I'd spend on both, the latter doesn't need a lot spent on it anyway, the media could do most of it - if they cared about people rather than inflaming things.
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Of course you would. You can't decide between Biden and Trump; how could anyone expect you to make any decision when confronted with two alternatives? I asked an extraordinarily simple couple of questions to you: who would you vote for, A or B, in the US, and on the topic of how you would spend a dollar to help police/citizenry relations? You had two choices. TWO. And you couldn't decide.

Oh, except . . . when the subject is super complex like "the media", then all waffling goes out the window. That fencepole comes right out of your ass like a rocket. There aren't good reporters, bad reporters, tabloids and thoughtful research-based discursive publications -- it's just media who cares about "inflaming things", not "people."

Which is a patently ridiculous take.

Jesus tapdancing Christ.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Of course you would. You can't decide between Biden and Trump; how could anyone expect you to make any decision when confronted with two alternatives? I asked an extraordinarily simple couple of questions to you: who would you vote for, A or B, in the US, and on the topic of how you would spend a dollar to help police/citizenry relations? You had two choices. TWO. And you couldn't decide.

Oh, except . . . when the subject is super complex like "the media", then all waffling goes out the window. That fencepole comes right out of your ass like a rocket. There aren't good reporters, bad reporters, tabloids and thoughtful research-based discursive publications -- it's just media who cares about "inflaming things", not "people."

Which is a patently ridiculous take.

Jesus tapdancing Christ.
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It's not that I couldn't, it's that I didn't, and needn't. I was being kind in my answer because quite frankly the question was pointless and dumb

As for the media, there are some good reporters but by and large the mainstream is about sensationalism and stoking up their people. Or maybe you watch the likes of Fox, CNN, MSNBC and think 'this is thoughtful stuff'
 
ChicagoBlue said:


Police officers watch videos like this in training.

Policing peaceful protestors is a different task than a traffic stop with non-compliance.

I am casting no premature judgement on the Kenosha shooting.

Would some of you feel differently if you discovered he was reaching inside his car for a gun? I don’t know if was or wasn’t. I don’t know if there was a gun in the car or not. I do know that if the officers had waited until they saw a gun, they could be dead now.

As I have said, when guns are ubiquitous, EVERY cop in EVERY situation has to assume the use of deadly force AGAINST HIM is a possibility.

There is admitted non-compliance and we ALL know enough to know that non-compliance and actions in complete contradiction of the compliance orders elevate the fear and danger of the situation.

Non-compliance coupled with bending down into a car, with the door partially open, backs to the officers do they have zero visibility of what the non-compliant person is doing is, in my opinion, the height of stupidity and daring the officers to use they already drawn weapons.

Ask yourself a question:

If you were confronted by two armed officers, guns drawn, barking orders at you, would YOU comply?

If not, why not?

Would you walk around a car away from them, where they can’t see your hands?

Would you then open your drivers side car door (the location where most people with weapons keep that weapon, within reach while driving, which is illegal unless legally permitted for concealed carry), with your back to officers, where they have zero vision of your hands?

You don’t even live in the US, but I would imagine most everyone in the UK would comply immediately, would not ignore lawful compliance orders from armed officers, and would definitely not ignore them to the point of just walking around the car to get to the drivers side door to reach in.

Like I said, I’ll withhold judgment until I know more, but I simply ask what would YOU have done? What do you think the “normal” person would have done? Why do YOU think the person was so completely non-compliant? Does non-compliance in the face of armed officers suggest fear or did he act quite nonchalantly? We’re there other people in the immediate vicinity, any one of whom could have been armed, escalate the situation?

Again, no judgement, just asking the questions that reasonable people ask about these incidents.





These were essentially “nothing” incidents until, in a split second, they became potentially deadly encounters...for police officers.

If YOU were a police officer, would YOU wait until fired upon to return fire? In those last two videos, did those guys look like they were afraid of the police? Had any intention to comply? Did they look like they ANY FEAR, OR CONCERN FOR HUMAN LIFE WHATSOEVER, when they immediately opened fire, and even got out of their own cars to run to the police cars to have a gun battle in the street?

Again, no judgement if you or your answers, just asking questions of (I assume) normal, every day, run of the mill, law abiding citizens from a country where gun crime is almost non-existent.
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They had every opportunity to tasar him rather than shoot him,there were three small children in the car,black men cant win,comply you get murdered in the street,walk away you get murdered in the street
 
Bigga said:
And Kenosha police DO NOT wear body cams!! So, essentially, it'll be their word against Jacob Blake's... but thank goodness for mobile phones, eh...?




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Pellerin had a knife and was walking into the store. Any cop that allowed him/the situation into the store would have been guilty of dereliction of duty.
 
Silva_Spell said:
It's not that I couldn't, it's that I didn't, and needn't. I was being kind in my answer because quite frankly the question was pointless and dumb

As for the media, there are some good reporters but by and large the mainstream is about sensationalism and stoking up their people. Or maybe you watch the likes of Fox, CNN, MSNBC and think 'this is thoughtful stuff'
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“Who would you vote for, Biden or Trump?”

“That question is pointless and dumb.”

Well, that’s one way of looking at it.
 
Silva_Spell said:
Can't even get your own questions straight. smh
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I asked you on the other thread — you wouldn’t answer.

I asked you a different question here and you called it pointless and dumb even though it was YOUR suggestion as a remedy for the problems we’re all discussing.

The problem isn’t that I can’t get my questions straight — it’s that you don’t have any straight answers.

At least you backtracked on your blanket media generalizations, hurrah hurrah.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I asked you on the other thread — you wouldn’t answer.

I asked you a different question here and you called it pointless and dumb even though it was YOUR suggestion as a remedy for the problems we’re all discussing.

The problem isn’t that I can’t get my questions straight — it’s that you don’t have any straight answers.

At least you backtracked on your blanket media generalizations, hurrah hurrah.
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My remedy was to do err... both things. Your weird obsession with getting answers from me as tho I'm running for office is a little strange.
"we need food and water!"
"ah but if you could only have one?"
"need both"
"couldn't answer the question!!!!!!"

No backtracking, just didn't think someone would actually think I'd mean every.single.person.involved.in.the.media. Guess I was wrong.
 
BobKowalski said:
Some observations.

You state ‘Cops watch videos like this all the time in training.’ How does this help?
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It helps police understand where threats are, what threats were missed by certain officers, how certain “benefit of the doubt” moments can be deadly, etc, etc, etc.

If you did not or could not expand your mind even that far, it is inconceivable that you understand their training.

Surely training is about the correct way to conduct a traffic stop. Positions to take, how to approach etc. How does watching videos of cops being shot do anything other than install fear in cops?
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Before a 22 year old guy becomes a cop, do you think he has ever been face to face with an armed assailant? How about an armed driver he just stop for speeding? Hell, I can legally be an armed driver stopped by a cop. How should I respond? How should he/she respond? We both know, but what when things do NOT go that way? (See the video examples I provided above) What are the consequences of escalation? How do you de-escalate an assailant who is determined to escalate, exhibit non-compliance, holding a weapon?

Until you stand in front of someone holding a loaded gun aimed at you, it’s easy to come on a Forum and spout platitudes about fear.

’Fearful’ people do not approach situations calmly. Giving ‘fearful’ people guns and authority over other people is just going to lead to a lot of dead people.
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I refer you to the comments above. 300M+ guns. Millions of those legal to be hidden on a person, millions more allowed to be openly carried.

Compliance saves lives. Compliance would have led to zero rounds being shot in Kenosha.

The depiction of ‘blacks equals trouble’ as part of LEO training is a societal issue.
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WTF??? Could you show me an example this LEO Training?

You’ll notice the color of the people in the traffic stops I provided. EVERYONE is a potential threat when guns are ubiquitous and seen as the enemy when trying to stop someone and probably charge them with an offence.

The history of black suppression in rooted in fear. Keep your foot on the back of their necks otherwise they will rise against you. Keep them poor, ignorant and excluded from main society otherwise they will rise against you. When slavery went, segregation and exclusion was the next step in suppression of blacks.
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And we’re off to the races again! Pun intended.

Man is a social animal, we have a desire to fit in, to know our place within the societies that we live in, fundamentally the vast majority are decent, but if you treat people if they are not, or a segment of people as ‘trouble’ or always ‘angry’ then you creating your own problems. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Great speech (yawn).

Now, was there something you wanted to say about the issue to which I was speaking: Kenosha shooting?

if you think the Bluemoon Forum is going to solve the racial issues in America in fortune cookie messages, we are doomed.

Again, just my two cents.
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Worth every penny.
 
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