Another new Brexit thread

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BobKowalski said:
Osbourne has tweeted

‘My 2013 Finance Act is being cited today as an example of breaking international law. To avoid any confusion: it created a general anti-tax avoidance rule that could override double tax treaties, but all parties to these treaties accept such rules - and the OECD backs them’
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so their justification was a lie...............why is that not a surprise
 
meltonblue said:
This thread shouldn’t be about remain vs leave at all any more tbh; we’re all leavers, or should be, as it’s going to happen whatever anyone thought or wanted initially.

The only meaningful discussion is about implementing it in the best possible way.
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Agreed - so all posters - not aimed at you - should start to place the best interests of the UK above winning an argument on an internet forum
 
mcfc1632 said:
Agreed - so all posters - not aimed at you - should start to place the best interests of the UK above winning an argument on an internet forum
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Absolutely right. Introducing a U.K. law that means we will breaking an international law is a really bad idea for the future of our country.

Whether you’re a Brexit supporter or not surely everyone can agree that.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Agreed - so all posters - not aimed at you - should start to place the best interests of the UK above winning an argument on an internet forum
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Correct. Personally I will never ever believe breaching international law in order to renege on an agreed treaty is in the UKs best interests. Either don’t agree to it in the first place or seek mutual agreement on the changes required.

Thats partly why I said earlier the current situation is a clusterfuck entirely of the tories own making. One faction of it disagreeing with another one has led to them now seeking to knowingly break the law (and the ministerial code) to fix something that the same faction that signed off on it sought to reduce scrutiny of in the first place to enable it to get through and into law.

It is so depressingly absurd if you think about it.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Agreed - so all posters - not aimed at you - should start to place the best interests of the UK above winning an argument on an internet forum
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"Start"? You mean you've not been doing that all along? I have.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
it’s a call to arms !!!

christ
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Been catching up and that comment made me spit out my drink.

Do we now expect to hear Boris on NYE speaking about how "we gave the EU an ultimatum, that if they did not do a deal with us by 12pm this afternoon, a state of whiff whaff would exist between us".
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Been catching up and that comment made me spit out my drink.

Do we now expect to hear Boris on NYE speaking about how "we gave the EU an ultimatum, that if they did not do a deal with us by 12pm this afternoon, a state of whiff whaff would exist between us".
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We will fight them on the beaches.

For towels.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Indeed - a valid concern

But surely you are not advocating that the strategic policies of the UK and its ability to act in the interests of its citizens should be determined by a need to appease potential terrorism?
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I’d say a big part of the interests of its citizens is not to intentionally break agreements that could easily reignite a slow burning civil war. That would Then directly kill many of its own citizens.

There is a big difference Between appeasing and doing something that breaks peace agreements which will incite violence.
 
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meltonblue said:
Correct. Personally I will never ever believe breaching international law in order to renege on an agreed treaty is in the UKs best interests. Either don’t agree to it in the first place or seek mutual agreement on the changes required.

Thats partly why I said earlier the current situation is a clusterfuck entirely of the tories own making. One faction of it disagreeing with another one has led to them now seeking to knowingly break the law (and the ministerial code) to fix something that the same faction that signed off on it sought to reduce scrutiny of in the first place to enable it to get through and into law.

It is so depressingly absurd if you think about it.
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A crack showing in tory unity over this one. You have the headbangers on one side thinking it's not enough and the whole WA should be ditched, and the sane tories who thing even a small breach of international law is completely unacceptable.

This could get very ugly, could be the first indication of where the power lies in the party. The ERG were always teh minority however many moderates and pro EU tories gave up and jacked it in at the last election. The new intake are an unknown quantity and we might get an inkling of their thoughts on the ultimate outcome over this issue.
 
BBC balance - Brexit Party hack Ben Habib wheeled out on Newsnight to justify illegality. Presumably nobody from the government would. He did helpfully draw attention to Article 4 of the WA.

1. The provisions of this Agreement and the provisions of Union law made applicable by this Agreement shall produce in respect of and in the United Kingdom the same legal effects as those which they produce within the Union and its Member States.

Accordingly, legal or natural persons shall in particular be able to rely directly on the provisions contained or referred to in this Agreement which meet the conditions for direct effect under Union law.
 
Vic said:
BBC balance - Brexit Party hack Ben Habib wheeled out on Newsnight to justify illegality. Presumably nobody from the government would. He did helpfully draw attention to Article 4 of the WA.

1. The provisions of this Agreement and the provisions of Union law made applicable by this Agreement shall produce in respect of and in the United Kingdom the same legal effects as those which they produce within the Union and its Member States.

Accordingly, legal or natural persons shall in particular be able to rely directly on the provisions contained or referred to in this Agreement which meet the conditions for direct effect under Union law.
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Therein lies the problem. The Govt won't put anyone up for interview. Then when discussions take place with no-one from the Govt they and their paid talking heads bleat from the sidelines about bias.
 
Gaudion M said:
A crack showing in tory unity over this one. You have the headbangers on one side thinking it's not enough and the whole WA should be ditched, and the sane tories who thing even a small breach of international law is completely unacceptable.

This could get very ugly, could be the first indication of where the power lies in the party. The ERG were always teh minority however many moderates and pro EU tories gave up and jacked it in at the last election. The new intake are an unknown quantity and we might get an inkling of their thoughts on the ultimate outcome over this issue.
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You do realise that tory disunity was why we had a referendum don't you? It was Camerons gamble to vanquish this rift that caused this. Labour are equally split which is why they came up with their ludicrous in, out, shake it all about bremain policy that lost them the GE. It suits some people to define this issue as left (pro EU) and right (pro leave), but it isn't and never has been like that.
 
bluethrunthru said:
another late night dead cat announcement to try and deflect from the proposal to break international law - as pathetic as it is predictable

news.sky.com

Coronavirus: Social gatherings of more than six people to be banned in England from Monday

The legal limit will be reduced from 30 in the prime minister's biggest coronavirus crackdown since lockdown rules were eased.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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Possible, but you may be going down the conspiracy rabbit hole a little too far there. The stats bear this out as a timely policy. It is laughable though that it's still ok to be in groups of whatever we like in school and work to keep the economy trukin. Maybe BJ and Cummings have brought in new legislation to thwart the WA and stop covid spreading during working hours ;-)
 
bluethrunthru said:
and on cue

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First let me declare my brexit bias, but do you think it may just be a teeny bit possible that Boris as foreign secretary hanging Darroch out to dry and making his position as ambassador untenable may have a slight bearing on this? If not, then fine - I just thought I'd mention it as a reason it may not be making the headlines.
 
bluethrunthru said:
and on cue

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The real damage with this though is within the westminster bubble. Any back bench tory MP still clinging on to the hope that this is a respectable government that is going to do things the right way will have had a wake up call. The conversations in private will be a bit more pointed and the calculations of support shifting.
 
Gaudion M said:
The real damage with this though is within the westminster bubble. Any back bench tory MP still clinging on to the hope that this is a respectable government that is going to do things the right way will have had a wake up call. The conversations in private will be a bit more pointed and the calculations of support shifting.
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Those red wall winners are getting really worried they will be one term wonders and the season ticket they thought they had won is more like an off peak cheap day return....one way
 
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