Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
mcfc1632 said:
I cannot disagree with any of that and respect it all

But.......

We have all been badly let down by the poor leadership on Brexit of May/Robbins

The outcome is a situation whereby the UK is in a situation that is intolerable going forward

I can well understand that Ireland will not be happy - and N.I. - Scotland (in the SNP) will seek to make political capital - but England and Wales should not have to swallow

There should have been better negotiations previously - the fault of many parties but especially the UK (May) and the EU

From a UK POV this travesty of a WA and PD must be stopped - I regret the impact on other parties - but the EU should not have taken the piss in negotiations (TBF - I would have done the same in their position and facing off against the muppets May/Robbins)
Click to expand...
That’s fine and dandy @mcfc1632 and I’m doing my damnedest not to get drawn into the bowels of the actual Brexit argument again.
It was Britain’s choice.
it is what it is, but every action has a consequence.
From our perspective whether you believe you got off to a bad start with May or not is inconsequential.
Where you are today chopping and changing your minds still is a consequence of a succession what looks like ineptitude at worst and possibly underhanded deceit of your own people at best. At best I say, as at least that would demonstrate a plan or end goal, regardless of whether it was what was sold to you in the first place.
I don’t expect British people to see it that way especially those who are in favour of leaving the EU, but it’s a common perception outside of the UK.
I don’t personally have any feeling about you leaving the EU.
You voted to so, you’ve done it. That’s democracy.
I do care about the GFA, which I did vote on and do watch carefully at your WA and what it’ll mean to the island of Ireland going forward.

As I stated earlier I wouldn’t trust Johnson’s government to do right by it or NI in general.

I can see myself taking a more active interest in here over the coming months, more is the pity.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
That’s fine and dandy @mcfc1632 and I’m doing my damnedest not to get drawn into the bowels of the actual Brexit argument again.
It was Britain’s choice.
it is what it is, but every action has a consequence.
From our perspective whether you believe you got off to a bad start with May or not is inconsequential.
Where you are today chopping and changing your minds still is a consequence of a succession what looks like ineptitude at worst and possibly underhanded deceit of your own people at best. At best I say, as at least that would demonstrate a plan or end goal, regardless of whether it was what was sold to you in the first place.
I don’t expect British people to see it that way especially those who are in favour of leaving the EU, but it’s a common perception outside of the UK.
I don’t personally have any feeling about you leaving the EU.
You voted to so, you’ve done it. That’s democracy.
I do care about the GFA, which I did vote on and do watch carefully at your WA and what it’ll mean to the island of Ireland going forward.

As I stated earlier I wouldn’t trust Johnson’s government to do right by it or NI in general.

I can see myself taking a more active interest in here over the coming months, more is the pity.
Click to expand...
Again - I agree with all of this
 
You do start to wonder if there is literally anything this government could do that the most staunch leavers would balk at, as long as it delivers the Brexit they demand. Wrecking the economy, potentially breaking up the union, proroguing parliament, breaking international law... seemingly anything now goes. Feels like the obsession with “delivering Brexit” now overrides everything, including common sense.
 
Ric said:
You do start to wonder if there is literally anything this government could do that the most staunch leavers would balk at, as long as it delivers the Brexit they demand. Wrecking the economy, potentially breaking up the union, proroguing parliament, breaking international law... seemingly anything now goes. Feels like the obsession with “delivering Brexit” now overrides everything, including common sense.
Click to expand...
It will be interesting to see if this is just posturing as part of negotiations. I've had a bit of a dig and the EU are far from powerless in terms of their response. Legally they can't probably do much tbh, but if they are prepared to get down in the gutter and play dirty they can certainly make post brexit Britain more messy. There are already signs of this as they have made some noises about ditching our 'third country' status and not recognising even our existing (EU compliant) food standards as adequate to scupper exports. It would slightly spoil their position as the injured party on the moral high ground though.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
It will be interesting to see if this is just posturing as part of negotiations. I've had a bit of a dig and the EU are far from powerless in terms of their response. Legally they can't probably do much tbh, but if they are prepared to get down in the gutter and play dirty they can certainly make post brexit Britain more messy. There are already signs of this as they have made some noises about ditching our 'third country' status and not recognising even our existing (EU compliant) food standards as adequate to scupper exports. It would slightly spoil their position as the injured party on the moral high ground though.
Click to expand...
I’m sure that if a deal is negotiated, and I would hope that’s what we all want ultimately (as only maybe hedge fund millionaires and extremists would actively want a no-deal Brexit), then Johnson will be declared as some kind of negotiating genius. I fear the long-term damage to our reputation will be done by then though. We’re hardly covering ourselves in glory of late.
 
Ric said:
You do start to wonder if there is literally anything this government could do that the most staunch leavers would balk at, as long as it delivers the Brexit they demand. Wrecking the economy, potentially breaking up the union, proroguing parliament, breaking international law... seemingly anything now goes. Feels like the obsession with “delivering Brexit” now overrides everything, including common sense.
Click to expand...
This is not new. It’s been the case for years now. They don’t care about the implications of Brexit or what it means to anyone else. They don’t feel guilty about the chaos caused or the lives lost and livelihoods ruined. Nobody has given a single advantage to leaving the Eu for years now, mainly because there aren’t any. This isn’t even discussed by anybody any more.

These people just want to Brexit in any way whatsoever and at any cost to everybody else because it’s the trophy in the wider culture war which has afflicted the UK and the US.
 
Ric said:
You do start to wonder if there is literally anything this government could do that the most staunch leavers would balk at, as long as it delivers the Brexit they demand. Wrecking the economy, potentially breaking up the union, proroguing parliament, breaking international law... seemingly anything now goes. Feels like the obsession with “delivering Brexit” now overrides everything, including common sense.
Click to expand...
...and the £3m extra Koulibaly will cost after the pound slumps. Parity with the Euro on the way.
 
Ric said:
You do start to wonder if there is literally anything this government could do that the most staunch leavers would balk at, as long as it delivers the Brexit they demand. Wrecking the economy, potentially breaking up the union, proroguing parliament, breaking international law... seemingly anything now goes. Feels like the obsession with “delivering Brexit” now overrides everything, including common sense.
Click to expand...
The irony is that they’ve got their fucking Brexit. But that’s not good enough for the cunts in charge. They want their scorched earth version of it and consider anything short of that a betrayal, whereas in reality they’ve broken every single promise that was made about Brexit from day one.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
This is not new. It’s been the case for years now. They don’t care about the implications of Brexit or what it means to anyone else. They don’t feel guilty about the chaos caused or the lives lost and livelihoods ruined. Nobody has given a single advantage to leaving the Eu for years now, mainly because there aren’t any. This isn’t even discussed by anybody any more.

These people just want to Brexit in any way whatsoever and at any cost to everybody else because it’s the trophy in the wider culture war which has afflicted the UK and the US.
Click to expand...
They’ve already got their Brexit in any way whatsoever but that’s not enough for them.
 
west didsblue said:
They’ve already got their Brexit in any way whatsoever but that’s not enough for them.
Click to expand...
That’s because they still feel threatened by the culture war. Black Lives Matter is in the premier league football shirts, children are coming out as gay or trans, they are getting whipped up by Cummings to believe their Land of Hope and Glory is being taken away from them. They know subconsciously that their side is aging and being left behind and that the young will rout their conservative and illiberal beliefs. So they want their one big Brexit trophy to parade.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I have said for many months that if we end up with a no-deal outcome - she and Corbyn, aided and abetted by Grieve et al - must shoulder a lot of the responsibility
Click to expand...



And there we have it ..... Leavers trying to shift the blame onto someone else. This shitshow is yours and the rest of the leavers ... however it turns out, you need to own it.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
And there we have it ..... Leavers trying to shift the blame onto someone else. This shitshow is yours and the rest of the leavers ... however it turns out, you need to own it.
Click to expand...
Ha ha - that is just limited thinking

I have no problem 'owning' Brexit - although how one individual does that is a mystery to me

I also have no problem stating clearly that I hope for a deal, but if that must include inappropriate EU controls over the UK - especially with regard to state-aid - then I would rather have no-deal

I have no problem stating that I would rather see the WA - a product of the EU and the inept May/Robbins - revoked, if it cannot implemented in a manner that does not prevent the EU being able to make inappropriate interpretations - such as with regards the N.I protocol

What you Remainers laughingly seek to deny is the simple fact that Corbyn could have on many occasions voted in the softest of soft Brexits but chose not to due to LP political aspirations. You Remainers now would seem to love that option - stop denying that he and others denied you it

Inconvenient truth it may be - but utter fact it is

You need to suck that up and stop lying to yourself
 
Didsbury Dave said:
That’s because they still feel threatened by the culture war. Black Lives Matter is in the premier league football shirts, children are coming out as gay or trans, they are getting whipped up by Cummings to believe their Land of Hope and Glory is being taken away from them. They know subconsciously that their side is aging and being left behind and that the young will rout their conservative and illiberal beliefs. So they want their one big Brexit trophy to parade.
Click to expand...
Lol, after a 10 year stretch in government, 'They' have just been re elected with an 80 seat majority. The young, that it's presumed will win it for Labour, haven't exactly been flocking to the opposition judging by their results.
Still, hope springs eternal and all that.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
from the government statement just released.....


Parliament is sovereign as a matter of domestic law and can pass legislation which is in breach of the UK’s Treaty obligations. Parliament would not be acting unconstitutionally in enacting such legislation. This ‘dualist’ approach is shared by other, similar legal systems such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Under this approach, treaty obligations only become binding to the extent that they are enshrined in domestic legislation. Whether to enact or repeal legislation, and the content of that legislation, is for Parliament and Parliament alone. This principle was recently approved unanimously by the Supreme Court in R (Miller) v Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union [2017] UKSC 5.
The legislation which implements the Withdrawal Agreement including the Northern Ireland Protocol is expressly subject to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty. Parliament’s ability to pass provisions that would take precedence over the Withdrawal Agreement was expressly confirmed in section 38 of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, with specific reference to the EU law concept of ‘direct effect’.
Click to expand...
And that's from a QC?

It's rubbish that treaty obligations only become binding if enshrined in domestic law. The dualist approach means something can be binding in international law despite what domestic law says. Miller was about getting parliamentary approval for invoking article 50 because it would alter domestic law.

Is there any precedent for parliament legislating to say that (while not withdrawing from a treaty) the UK can ignore its provisions? If it's a dualist system, is it even possible for a domestic law to unbind obligations in international law?
 
Can't beat an early morning catch up of the previous evenings echo chamber.

You will all thanks us for voting leave in the years to come.

Being the gracious and humble sort that I am, i won't tell you to go fuck yourselves either ;-)
 
blueinsa said:
Can't beat an early morning catch up of the previous evenings echo chamber.

You will all thanks us for voting leave in the years to come.

Being the gracious and humble sort that I am, i won't tell you to go fuck yourselves either ;-)
Click to expand...
I try to make an habit of avoiding the thread late evening

There is a risk that I might be more blunt than I should be after a few beers - I am sure it is the case for others;-)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top