Rise in violence towards UK police

[oldius]

There has been a gradual escalation in violence in the UK, including attacks on the police. The reasons are complex and there are many.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Ireland says hello.
As does Iceland Norway and New Zealand. All lovely places to live.

Interesting fact. NI is the only Uk country with an armed police force.

Yes I know, all very low populations, but certainly nice places.
Sweden, Portugal, and Australia are equally pleasant yet they all have armed police. Still, if the police themselves here say they don't want them, that's fair enough.

 

[urban genie]

I didn't want to post it in the other thread/forum because it will invariably end up in a political debate and the thread's already been cleaned up but today's incident isn't an isolated event.

Over the past year, there's been an 18% rise in assaults against police, and it's even higher if you go back a few years earlier although there are methodological limitations to making such a comparison. https://fullfact.org/crime/assaults-on-police-officers/

The Met police have also stated there's been an incredible 38% rise in assaults since May ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53812587 ) so there is clearly a societal issue where people think it's becoming more acceptable to attack the police.

What's the solution? Arming them? More/less police officers? Defund them? More support from politicians?

Edit: Probably ambiguous to describe it as police violence in thread title, assaults on police would be a better way of describing it if any mod can be bothered changing the title

Have th in comminities as public servant like they once were and not seen as the enemy.

Dress them in proper authorative uniforms again, stangely enough studies find people respond to how people dress, these uniforms of baseball caps, t-shirts and hi-viz vests do not command respect or authority.

Invest in the areas where crime is high in social care, youth centres, programmes to get communities together and discourage gangs and also have manned police stations in all areas again.

Have a police presence in schools for educational purposes.

Basically engage with communities don't demonise them.

Staff them so they can respond to actual crimes and all of them, not.some crime number and people feeling disenfranchised by the system.

Giving them guns or more powerful tasers won't stop police attacks, but it may mean they are attacked with equally deadly weapons.

 

[mosssideblue]

There is a bigger issue and that is the total lack of respect for authorities and elders this once proud nation could boast.

The country has declined visibly over the last few decades to the point it is no longer a safe place where rewards were earnt, not expected as a freebie.

Punishments handed out by the courts no longer seem to match the offence.

We have changed from what I want, I will work hard for to, what I want, I will just take.

Will it get better? I very much doubt.

Sad

 

[urban genie]

There is a bigger issue and that is the total lack of respect for authorities and elders this once proud nation could boast.

The country has declined visibly over the last few decades to the point it is no longer a safe place where rewards were earnt, not expected as a freebie.

Punishments handed out by the courts no longer seem to match the offence.

We have changed from what I want, I will work hard for to, what I want, I will just take.

Will it get better? I very much doubt.

Sad

Been going on a while and PMs are the blame


Thatcher tore down society and respect for each other
Blair made punishing people a joke with Asbos and such bollocks
Cameron shut down the local community police stations and cut numbers
May demoralised the emergency services in general
Johnson is fucking useless lump of nothingness.


Bad leadership for 40 years has well and truly fucked this country up good and proper.


And will wait for the but they also did this, that and the other replies.
They did, but all the while they let our basic society and respect for institutions fall to shit

 

[mosssideblue]

Been going on a while and I PMs are the blame


Thatcher tore down society and respect for each other
Blair made punishing people a joke with Asbos and such bollocks
Cameron shut down the local community police stations and cut numbers
May demoralised the emergency services in general
Johnson is fucking useless lump of nothingness.


Bad leadership for 40 years has well and truly fucked this cluntry up good and proper.


And will wait for the but they also did this, that and the other replies.
They did, but all the while they let our basic society and respect for institutions fall to shit

I cannot offer an argument to say what you did as being incorrect but would add, irrespective of political intervention, the mentality of individuals was different back then.

We knew right from wrong and were brought up to respect each other and in particular, your elders and anyone in authority. We didn't need laws or deterrents to understand and adhere to that.

It maybe seen by many as a controversial thing to say but imo, lack of parental control and example has played a huge part in the downfall of this country.

Sure, the majority are still law abiding and support and adhere the values we all want, but there is a shift towards a country spiraling in the wrong direction, and too fast for my liking.

Yes, before anyone asks, I am an old git

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Thatcher tore down society and respect for each other
Blair made punishing people a joke with Asbos and such bollocks
Cameron shut down the local community police stations and cut numbers
May demoralised the emergency services in general
Johnson is fucking useless lump of nothingness.

Yeah, every shade of political philosophy there and every one desperate to leave a 'legacy'! Well, they've certainly left their mark on the UK!

 

[mosssideblue]

When we were growing up as kids in Mossside, we were shit scared of coppers. Those were the days, when a clip round the ear from a bobby was all that was needed to put you back in line.

Talking back got you a second clip and a walk to your front door

 

[Kazzydeyna]

I am pro-police, sadly they have been used as a political force for too long, they should be apolitical but as soon as Thatcher used them at Orgreave that respect has diminished which has allowed Govts of various hues to cut police numbers. Cutting police numbers is idiotic, we should have a proper well funded, well paid police force with all the equipment they need to make the streets safe. I am not anti the police having guns, I would prefer they didn't need them, that is a subtle distinction.

There also has to be public understanding of their role. Yesterday they quite rightly allowed that face mask demo to go ahead but when it overstepped the agreed boundaries they quite rightly moved to close it down and were attacked for doing so. Then all over social media was reports that the police were oppressive and that they allowed BLM to get away with stuff the covidiots didnt. That is just idiotic political propaganda designed at making political points at the expense of the police which is totally unwarrented.

A very well thought out post. Well said.

 

[urban genie]

I cannot offer an argument to say what you did as being incorrect but would add, irrespective of political intervention, the mentality of individuals was different back then.

We knew right from wrong and were brought up to respect each other and in particular, your elders and anyone in authority. We didn't need laws or deterrents to understand and adhere to that.

It maybe seen by many as a controversial thing to say but imo, lack of parental control and example has played a huge part in the downfall of this country.

Sure, the majority are still law abiding and support and adhere the values we all want, but there is a shift towards a country spiraling in the wrong direction, and too fast for my liking.

Yes, before anyone asks, I am an old git

And as I said previously better community ties is needed, along with education.

Respect for the police was because they were everywhere, engaged with the locals whether to help or collar people and also looked like authority figures.

Now you are lucky to see one and dress no different than like a traffic warden or lollypop man/lady

 

[BobKowalski]

I cannot offer an argument to say what you did as being incorrect but would add, irrespective of political intervention, the mentality of individuals was different back then.

We knew right from wrong and were brought up to respect each other and in particular, your elders and anyone in authority. We didn't need laws or deterrents to understand and adhere to that.

It maybe seen by many as a controversial thing to say but imo, lack of parental control and example has played a huge part in the downfall of this country.

Sure, the majority are still law abiding and support and adhere the values we all want, but there is a shift towards a country spiraling in the wrong direction, and too fast for my liking.

Yes, before anyone asks, I am an old git

Personally, and also as an old git, I disagree. The past is an idyllic country which never really existed. It only exists in peoples memories. A bit like the blitz spirit which co-existed alongside rampant crime, a booming black market and a relaxing of morality because if you think you may get blown to bits tomorrow then why not have a bit of fun today.

If anything we are way too docile these days, where are the revolting students from the sixties or the workers taking to the streets like they did in the seventies? Nowadays students are crushed by student loans and the workers have forgotten how to protest or strike.

To be fair we do have BLM and Extinction Rebellion so all is not lost :)

 

[mosssideblue]

Personally, and also as an old git, I disagree. The past is an idyllic country which never really existed. It only exists in peoples memories. A bit like the blitz spirit which co-existed alongside rampant crime, a booming black market and a relaxing of morality because if you think you may get blown to bits tomorrow then why not have a bit of fun today.

If anything we are way too docile these days, where are the revolting students from the sixties or the workers taking to the streets like they did in the seventies? Nowadays students are crushed by student loans and the workers have forgotten how to protest or strike.

To be fair we do have BLM and Extinction Rebellion so all is not lost :)

It did exist in the 50s/60s. Joined the armed forces 72, so spent a lot of time away from uk

 

[BobKowalski]

It did exist in the 50s/60s. Joined the armed forces 72, so spent a lot of time away from uk

The fifties were drab, dreary and rationing. The sixties had flower power, hippies, with the older generation freaking out over the ‘youth of today’, and violent protests over Vietnam outside the US embassy. 1968 the whole world was on fire with riots, student protests and leaders like DeGaulle fleeing office.

In the past, things were always better, even when they weren’t.

 

[mosssideblue]

The fifties were drab, dreary and rationing. The sixties had flower power, hippies, with the older generation freaking out over the ‘youth of today’, and violent protests over Vietnam outside the US embassy. 1968 the whole world was on fire with riots, student protests and leaders like DeGaulle fleeing office.

In the past, things were always better, even when they weren’t.

Compared to today, I would say things were a lot better.

 

[BobKowalski]

Compared to today, I would say things were a lot better.

Well, we weren’t in a middle of a global pandemic then, nor facing rupture from the trading norms with our closest neighbours, so in that sense 2020 has been a bit of a washout.

 

[mosssideblue]

Well, we weren’t in a middle of a global pandemic then, nor facing rupture from the trading norms with our closest neighbours, so in that sense 2020 has been a bit of a washout.

I think you know I wasn't comparing this year specifically, but recent years.

Pandemic or not, respect for each other should always be there

 

[BobKowalski]

I think you know I wasn't comparing this year specifically, but recent years.

Pandemic or not, respect for each other should always be there

Yeah, it was a joke.

Although in thirty years time, old ‘uns will be tutting at young ‘uns about how back in the day the country came together during ‘Global Pandemic I’ and worked together, helped each and respected each other through social distancing and mask wearing etc., and how the ‘current generation just doesn‘t respect each other or society enough to do that’.

Nostalgia for the past is emotion based and you can’t reason with emotion.

 

[mosssideblue]

Yeah, it was a joke.

Although in thirty years time, old ‘uns will be tutting at young ‘uns about how back in the day the country came together during ‘Global Pandemic I’ and worked together, helped each and respected each other through social distancing and mask wearing etc., and how the ‘current generation just doesn‘t respect each other or society enough to do that’.

Nostalgia for the past is emotion based and you can’t reason with emotion.

Except, the country didn't come together in this time of need as the young uns didn't give a shit :)

 

[BobKowalski]

Except, the country didn't come together in this time of need as the young uns didn't give a shit :)

In thirty years time that is not how it will be remembered. Nostalgia is a powerful drug :)

 

[mosssideblue]

In thirty years time that is not how it will be remembered. Nostalgia is a powerful drug :)

You're Ying, I am Yang.

Lets leave it there