Are you really going to try and use our previous failures as a defence? We have been awful at achieving fair value for many years now, but it is arguably getting worse. I want us to do better. I think that is a reasonable position to take. I don’t want to see the club being repeatedly taken advantage of.
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It's Quiet thread 14 - 'do one' edition
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When the club has shown it does not care as much for squeezing every pound out of a sale then why are you putting so much energy into expecting them do it? Failures in what exactly? We were the most successful domestic club in England last decade? Now a season of no league title and it's doom and gloom, we have to make big money sales to reinvest? I just don't get the logic of this expectation.Are you really going to try and use our previous failures as a defence? We have been awful at achieving fair value for many years now, but it is arguably getting worse. I want us to do better. I think that is a reasonable position to take. I don’t want to see the club being repeatedly taken advantage of.
Yes, when it comes to buying players I expect that ruthless behaviour, I would gladly accept our scouts or board, whoever the people concerned may be, have not got us fair value deals for certain players when buying in last 2 years. But this can happen to almost every club, I don't think we are the only victims of this.
FantasyIreland
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We got 14m for Otamendi,that wasn't awful by any stretch.
Would be interested to know how much our net spend is now that the window has shut.We got 14m for Otamendi,that wasn't awful by any stretch.
That was an accounting trick as part of the Dias deal. Not a real sale.We got 14m for Otamendi,that wasn't awful by any stretch.
FantasyIreland
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Shhhhhhh!!That was an accounting trick as part of the Dias deal. Not a real sale.
What sales have we made prior of note to be able to spend as much as we have under Guardiola? Far as I can tell we have the highest net spend of all clubs. What's changed now all of a sudden? You think the club is guilty and has to comply? Because surely even we have seen a change in policy when it comes to buying, but not so much when selling. I don't know what you expect to change when the club has operated this way since over a decade.
Under Guardiola we have been shopping for value trying to build a team of players for 50-60 million. We have seen Mbappe, Neymar, Ronaldo, Felix all move and we weren’t even in the frame. When we sell the way we sell we are not creating the revenue needed to finance the absolute top tier purchases. We continue to trudge down the path of buying a talented player who isn’t proven, watching them struggle and or get injured, waiting for them to return to form while they evaporate value, then sell them for pennies or let them leave on a free. It is awful asset management and it is affecting us as we have been both unable to press our advantage and still had to deal with all kinds of FFP nonsense
When the club has shown it does not care as much for squeezing every pound out of a sale then why are you putting so much energy into expecting them do it? Failures in what exactly? We were the most successful domestic club in England last decade? Now a season of no league title and it's doom and gloom, we have to make big money sales to reinvest? I just don't get the logic of this expectation.
Yes, when it comes to buying players I expect that ruthless behaviour, I would gladly accept our scouts or board, whoever the people concerned may be, have not got us fair value deals for certain players when buying in last 2 years. But this can happen to almost every club, I don't think we are the only victims of this.
Squeezing every pound? We got less than two million for a promising young English centre-back. Fair value would be closer to ten times that amount. You are trying to tell me that the club doesn’t care what it sells players for. Why then did we not sell Garcia? Why did we spend months haggling over centre-backs? Even if it were true, it would only prove that we were being run by morons. Expenditure is only one half of the equation.
The failure that I was talking about was with regards to our transfer activity. The logic is really very simple. Less cash in equals less cash available to reinvest. It really is astonishingly simple stuff. We don’t have access to a money printer. We have various streams of income, one of which is player sales.
Don’t ever go into business, it’s not for you.
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FantasyIreland
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At this stage of his career......Just getting him out the club was a masterstroke,so credit where it's due ;-)Also we pay like Otamendi 8m euros in next two years as Benfica aint giving him same salary he was on here while Otamendi clearly dont accept lower salary.
Guess what, none of Prem clubs would also be able to make a move for Neymar, Mbappe, Felix next season with any ease. If you speak of our policy then you should know we have never gone for the best/world class option on market, but taken the alternate route that hasn't cost us millions less, but has proven to be a shrewd purchase and their value has gone up.Under Guardiola we have been shopping for value trying to build a team of players for 50-60 million. We have seen Mbappe, Neymar, Ronaldo, Felix all move and we weren’t even in the frame. When we sell the way we sell we are not creating the revenue needed to finance the absolute top tier purchases. We continue to trudge down the path of buying a talented player who isn’t proven, watching them struggle and or get injured, waiting for them to return to form while they evaporate value, then sell them for pennies or let them leave on a free. It is awful asset management and it is affecting us as we have been both unable to press our advantage and still had to deal with all kinds of FFP nonsense
Last 2 years buying is a concern, and I will admit to that, but to expect that we somehow turn into Liverpool and produce a sale of 160m like they did for Coutinho to be able to get the best from market, that is unreasonable. But a possible 20m compared to 2m (practically free) we got for Tosin won't change our transfer policy in who we go to buy, neither would sales like this help us.
Saying building a team of 50-60m players.. But the volume of 50-60m players is not equivalent to those at other clubs. Look at the signings and squad quality of PSG outside of Neymar and Mbappe. Icardi is the next highest purchase of around 50m odd, they have relied on utility players aged 27+ to help them fix gaps in the team. Just for comparison sake. Also no sale of note, yet bought Mbappe and Neymar in 1 window (even if you count the loan with obligation payment structures and what not).
If we wanted one of Neymar or Mbappe or someone we would have gone and got them. If you think the current sales are stopping us from buying one of those profile of players then that is genuinely a wrong idea you've taken.
Where have you seen this?Also we pay like Otamendi 8m euros in next two years as Benfica aint giving him same salary he was on here while Otamendi clearly dont accept lower salary.
We are giving him an exit bonus as an award for service, this is common practice. This one seemed to be outed by Portuguese media. There is absolutely no way that Benfica were paying him those wages, but we have definitely not paid him for the whole of those 2 remaining years either, what matters is he moved and we replaced him with someone younger.
Sure, thank you for your advice but please remind me where have lack of money from sales in last years stopped us from re investing? The whole point I'm making is we are not as reliant on a model of selling players to buy new ones like some other big clubs are, don't be naff. Literally no one is debating 2m or under is justified for Tosin, but the point is he is someone we do not care for to be in first team squad so we have let him go to whoever has come in for him.Squeezing every pound? We got less than two million for a promising young English centre-back. Fair value would be closer to ten times that amount. You are trying to tell me that the club doesn’t care what it sells players for. Why then did we not sell Garcia? Why did we spend months haggling over centre-backs? Even if it were true, it would only prove that we were being run by morons. Expenditure is only one half of the equation.
The failure that I was talking about was with regards to our transfer activity. The logic is really very simple. Less cash in equals less cash available to reinvest. It really is astonishingly simple stuff. We don’t have access to a money printer. We have various streams of income, one of which is player sales.
Don’t ever go into business, it’s not for you.
Failure to negotiate a better deal for Tosin, and several others has not stopped us from getting in Ruben Dias has it? You have to be an absolute idiot to believe getting a deal done for a centre back is as simple as just paying up and being done with, it was always going to take time, and we were always going to have problems with Napoli, hence we had alternatives. We have a policy of not over paying for the profile, and we did not. In fact, in moving Otamendi we got a great deal for Dias.
Look at other clubs, there are players who are being only targeted by one club and it's not been done since months. COVID has been a massive factor in spending and buying power for several clubs, I assume it has impacted us and we have also tried to keep a rather lower profile than usual in transfer market.
p.s. If we were 'run by morons' we wouldn't have progressed as a club at all. Maybe get a grip and have some patience, let it play out.
Guess what, none of Prem clubs would also be able to make a move for Neymar, Mbappe, Felix next season with any ease. If you speak of our policy then you should know we have never gone for the best/world class option on market, but taken the alternate route that hasn't cost us millions less, but has proven to be a shrewd purchase and their value has gone up.
Last 2 years buying is a concern, and I will admit to that, but to expect that we somehow turn into Liverpool and produce a sale of 160m like they did for Coutinho to be able to get the best from market, that is unreasonable. But a possible 20m compared to 2m (practically free) we got for Tosin won't change our transfer policy in who we go to buy, neither would sales like this help us.
Saying building a team of 50-60m players.. But the volume of 50-60m players is not equivalent to those at other clubs. Look at the signings and squad quality of PSG outside of Neymar and Mbappe. Icardi is the next highest purchase of around 50m odd, they have relied on utility players aged 27+ to help them fix gaps in the team. Just for comparison sake. Also no sale of note, yet bought Mbappe and Neymar in 1 window (even if you count the loan with obligation payment structures and what not).
If we wanted one of Neymar or Mbappe or someone we would have gone and got them. If you think the current sales are stopping us from buying one of those profile of players then that is genuinely a wrong idea you've taken.
It is clear that you aren’t interested in getting this but those small amounts add up to us being able to get bigger players or getting our first targets.
Take Koulibaly as an example. If we had sold better in previous windows we can extend further to close that deal before our limited ore season even began. Hell, maybe we close it last year and don’t waste a season trying to replace Kompany with a rag tag group. We don’t need to sell to buy directly as we do have income from sponsorships and our overall success but if we were selling better we could be more aggressive and not end up buying our 4th choice CB because his club was willing to take on a player we haven’t been able to move for years.
The deal to get Otto out was a clever one, even considering the wages we still will be paying him for 2 years.Squeezing every pound? We got less than two million for a promising young English centre-back. Fair value would be closer to ten times that amount. You are trying to tell me that the club doesn’t care what it sells players for. Why then did we not sell Garcia? Why did we spend months haggling over centre-backs? Even if it were true, it would only prove that we were being run by morons. Expenditure is only one half of the equation.
The failure that I was talking about was with regards to our transfer activity. The logic is really very simple. Less cash in equals less cash available to reinvest. It really is astonishingly simple stuff. We don’t have access to a money printer. We have various streams of income, one of which is player sales.
Don’t ever go into business, it’s not for you.
We got a decent fee and freed up a valuable squad spot.
Tosin was that good we had clubs knocking our door down trying to sign him. Not a criticism of the player, just to the fact that people on here have seriously overrated him. The difference between a lower championship side and the premier league is night and day.
Great Kompany
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The sheer incompetence of Txiki and our club in selling players is just baffling. I mean how to fuck we will get in all some 25 million for three young players, all of them defenders when the market price of even duds like Lovren is 12 million pounds.
Has there ever been a Txiki masterclass unless the selling club is totally in ruins ( Valencia - Torres)
Atleast Woodward total buffoonery is hidden by a global fanbase trying to buy every United merchandise under the sun and umpteen soup and noodle sponsors.
But lets buy another club for CFG where our young signings can go and ruin themselves.
Has there ever been a Txiki masterclass unless the selling club is totally in ruins ( Valencia - Torres)
Atleast Woodward total buffoonery is hidden by a global fanbase trying to buy every United merchandise under the sun and umpteen soup and noodle sponsors.
But lets buy another club for CFG where our young signings can go and ruin themselves.
TheThirdDeano
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Think you need to call your mum, you’ve pissed your pants again.The sheer incompetence of Txiki and our club in selling players is just baffling. I mean how to fuck we will get in all some 25 million for three young players, all of them defenders when the market price of even duds like Lovren is 12 million pounds.
Has there ever been a Txiki masterclass unless the selling club is totally in ruins ( Valencia - Torres)
Atleast Woodward total buffoonery is hidden by a global fanbase trying to buy every United merchandise under the sun and umpteen soup and noodle sponsors.
But lets buy another club for CFG where our young signings can go and ruin themselves.
Cheeky Txiki
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We have 150 mil in academy sales. We have spent perfectly in a COVID affected market. You should go change your diaper.The sheer incompetence of Txiki and our club in selling players is just baffling. I mean how to fuck we will get in all some 25 million for three young players, all of them defenders when the market price of even duds like Lovren is 12 million pounds.
Has there ever been a Txiki masterclass unless the selling club is totally in ruins ( Valencia - Torres)
Atleast Woodward total buffoonery is hidden by a global fanbase trying to buy every United merchandise under the sun and umpteen soup and noodle sponsors.
But lets buy another club for CFG where our young signings can go and ruin themselves.
The only bit of substance that matters mate is that City have turned down reasonable money for a player that doesn't want to be here, we don't need and one that can leave for nothing next season.
You can call it ignorance and disagree we me, but no argument put forward is going to convince me there's any sound business logic to it from City's POV. Especially when we're agreeing to let better players like Angelino go for the same amount (€18m buyout with Leipzig) after he's peformed at a much higher level and isn't in the last 9 months of his contract.
We give it the biggun about players being committed to the club and we're allowing a totally uncommitted player to continue with us.
"No argument put
The only bit of substance that matters mate is that City have turned down reasonable money for a player that doesn't want to be here, we don't need and one that can leave for nothing next season.
You can call it ignorance and disagree we me, but no argument put forward is going to convince me there's any sound business logic to it from City's POV. Especially when we're agreeing to let better players like Angelino go for the same amount (€18m buyout with Leipzig) after he's peformed at a much higher level and isn't in the last 9 months of his contract.
We give it the biggun about players being committed to the club and we're allowing a totally uncommitted player to continue with us.
Then you're an idiot. As I've explained, repeatedly, if you accept that lowball offer then you get lowballed in EVERY transfer negotiation in future. Your ignorant, short sighted, stubborn approach would ruin the club in the long term. Then you'd be complaining about that.
My logic is based on us turning down an €18m offer from Barca because it was €2 lower than what we wanted.
It's petty and illogical given the circumstances.
It is 10m (£) lower than we wanted, not 2. Half pricd deal, pisstake, and not worth it.
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