COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Unfortunately it's got to a stage where we've got to crack on with it. The untold damage to the economy and community is already high if this drags on for another 1,2,3 years, life won't be worth living anyway. No jobs, nothing to do, no cinemas to go to, no bars or restaurants. No live sports, gigs, concerts, festivals. Students missing out on possibly the most important part of their life. Everything that makes us, us. Gone. They have predicted how many may die of covid, have they predicted how many will die if we carry on like this? A similar amount? Who knows. Do we all really want to live on a covid free desert island?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
You are completely missing the point mate.

you are saying the uk and Sweden are about the same on herd immunity.

our schools have been shut for months Sweden hasn’t
bars restaurants and normal life has all been the same in Sweden.

we have shut everything down ground to a halt , lockdowns . People not able to pay respects to dead relatives , marriages and christenings cancelled .

yet we are the same place you say in our fight against Covid. ??
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I said that we are in the same place vs herd immunity threshold. That may be inconvenient, but it is true.

That 10x as many purple have died in Sweden as comparable countries, and more than anywhere else in Europe except the uk. Again, inconvenient, but true.

That Sweden has a number of big differences to the uk that makes their approach more achievable there than here.

Sweden did for close schools for older children.

Sweden did close universities (I'm not sure what the situation is today)

Case numbers in Sweden are currently rising.

Other than wishing you were Swedish, I'm not sure what your point is to be honest.
 
Elbow beards said:
Unfortunately it's got to a stage where we've got to crack on with it. The untold damage to the economy and community is already high if this drags on for another 1,2,3 years, life won't be worth living anyway. No jobs, nothing to do, no cinemas to go to, no bars or restaurants. No live sports, gigs, concerts, festivals. Students missing out on possibly the most important part of their life. Everything that makes us, us. Gone. They have predicted how many may die of covid, have they predicted how many will die if we carry on like this? A similar amount? Who knows. Do we all really want to live on a covid free desert island?
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Council offices
Doctors surgeries
Schools
Opticians
Dentists
Hearing clinics

In the most part as you say the country has been shut since the first whiff of this virus, the first thing we have to do is get these places open and functioning.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Yes things have worked better when there has been national consistency eg the hands, face, space advice / rules.

The lockdown is frustrating but it has some benefits. I’ve seen loads of examples of neighbours helping each other out. I quite like being able to text for my 2 Guinnesses to be delivered to my table in the legion lol
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The lockdowns have one success and that is to suppress the r rate for the time the lockdown is in effect. Once we lift and come out of it the R rate rises once more so its delaying the inevitable. I can see why it would be used to manage hospital numbers but other than that it is having no other effect.

The negatives re lockdowns is a long list and in the years to come we will look back at the damage we have done to ourselves in trying to hide away from something that is impossible to hide from.

Shield the elderly and those at very high risk and the rest of us need to get on with life.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I said that we are in the same place vs herd immunity threshold. That may be inconvenient, but it is true.

That 10x as many purple have died in Sweden as comparable countries, and more than anywhere else in Europe except the uk. Again, inconvenient, but true.

That Sweden has a number of big differences to the uk that makes their approach more achievable there than here.

Sweden did for close schools for older children.

Sweden did close universities (I'm not sure what the situation is today)

Case numbers in Sweden are currently rising.

Other than wishing you were Swedish, I'm not sure what your point is to be honest.
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why would being in the same place as Sweden on herd immunity be inconvenient .
I am not interesting in going round the houses . If you think Sweden has been on lockdown like the uk Spain and France then fine. Believe away
 
davealvers said:
Some commentary from someone actually from the front line in Sweden. It was written on 19th September so not sure how things have progressed since then

drmalcolmkendrick.org

More COVID19 news from Sweden

A few weeks ago, an emergency physician working in Sweden, Dr. Sebastian Rushworth, asked me if I would be willing to replicate an article from his blog on mine. I was more than happy; it was a gre…
drmalcolmkendrick.org drmalcolmkendrick.org
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If Sweden has herd immunity, why are cases rising?

If Sweden has herd immunity, having had less cases and deaths than the uk, and similar or lower serology, why do we not have herd immunity?
 
Tim of the Oak said:
This is a thorough analysis of what went wrong. It’s not hindsight because some NHS leaders have been warning about the outsourcing of pathology services for years.
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Just think of all that money we we ‘saved‘, denuding public health services, outsourcing pathology and PPE, not having a centralised PPE Stockpile and cutting resources to local contact tracing.....
 
roubaixtuesday said:
If Sweden has herd immunity, why are cases rising?

If Sweden has herd immunity, having had less cases and deaths than the uk, and similar or lower serology, why do we not have herd immunity?
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No one knows if they have it or not. What I took from the article is that it's a myth that they are all model citizens who off their own backs locked down and didn't see anyone for months, when in fact they are just the same as everyone else.
 
True_Blue69 said:
No one knows if they have it or not. What I took from the article is that it's a myth that they are all model citizens who off their own backs locked down and didn't see anyone for months, when in fact they are just the same as everyone else.
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I speak to Swedes every day through work.

I cannot tell you how representative they are, but their life is far from pre- pandemic: working from home, no mass events, not allowed to visit relatives in care homes, just for example.
 
blueinsa said:
The lockdowns have one success and that is to suppress the r rate for the time the lockdown is in effect. Once we lift and come out of it the R rate rises once more so its delaying the inevitable. I can see why it would be used to manage hospital numbers but other than that it is having no other effect.

The negatives re lockdowns is a long list and in the years to come we will look back at the damage we have done to ourselves in trying to hide away from something that is impossible to hide from.

Shield the elderly and those at very high risk and the rest of us need to get on with life.
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Most people can get on with a decent quality of life now with eased restrictions but it’s still grim for many.

Yes the R rate has increased as restrictions have eased but I think that has often been where people have ignored the rules on social distancing, hand washing etc. I think that is the case because the R rate began to fall the week before the first wave lockdown when people began to social distance more, use hand sanitizers and use public transport sparingly. Also, the R rate continued to fall a bit when we were allowed flexibility to exercise outdoors.

Most of us have some control over the quality of our lives and it’s important that we don’t talk ourselves into a lasting economic depression. That’s why I have stressed supporting local business and holidaying in the UK. Sadly, there may be lasting damage to aeroplane flight / holiday companies and the hospitality and live entertainment sectors

There will be increased mental health problems that may be unavoidable. I think people need to build up resilience wherever they can eg through getting outdoors for walks and gardening, doing breathing exercises and meditation etc. This afternoon I’m volunteering with a community gardening group that helps people with anxiety etc.
 
Sweden - the price for Sweden’s laissez-faire approach has been too high. The country’s cumulative death rate since the beginning of the pandemic rivals that of the United States, with its shambolic response. And the virus took a shocking toll on the most vulnerable. It had free rein in nursing homes, where nearly 1000 people died in a matter of weeks. Stockholm’s nursing homes ended up losing 7% of their 14,000 residents to the virus. The vast majority were not taken to hospitals. Although infections waned over the summer, scientists worry a new wave will hit in the fall. Cases are rising rapidly in the greater Stockholm area, where almost one-quarter of the Swedish population lives.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I speak to Swedes every day through work.

I cannot tell you how representative they are, but their life is far from pre- pandemic: working from home, no mass events, not allowed to visit relatives in care homes, just for example.
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That doctor does say all that, no gatherings of more than 50 etc. The article wasn't saying life is totally normal but it certainly was never what ours were like earlier in the year and a still a lot closer to normal then what we are now. He also said care home visits are being allowed again so as we restrict more, they continue to relax the few rules they have.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Just think of all that money we we ‘saved‘, denuding public health services, outsourcing pathology and PPE, not having a centralised PPE Stockpile and cutting resources to local contact tracing.....
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Spot on mate. FWIW, A few years ago I was invited to an event on planning future health services. A big issue issue on the day was the outsourcing of pathology service that I hadn’t understood was such a big risk before then.
 
hilts said:
I’m not really interested in how Sweden is doing in particular but London is playing on my mind, it doesn’t make sense to me and has me questioning the route we are taking.
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Coronavirus is spreading across London with more than 1,000 new cases a day now, official figures reveal.
They show how the epidemic is hitting boroughs across the city and is no longer mainly affecting east London.
Sixteen areas now have infection rates of more than 60 new cases per 100,000 people in the week to October 2.

www.standard.co.uk

Covid-19 spreading across London with more than 1,000 new daily cases

London was declared an area of concern last month when there were just over 600 new cases a day
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
 
True_Blue69 said:
That doctor does say all that, no gatherings of more than 50 etc. The article wasn't saying life is totally normal but it certainly was never what ours were like earlier in the year and a still a lot closer to normal then what we are now. He also said care home visits are being allowed again so as we restrict more, they continue to relax the few rules they have.
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Yes, I agree with all of that.

But it's nothing to do with herd immunity and there's very good reason to believe it wouldn't translate directly here.
 
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