COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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jitsubluedan said:
Haven’t kept up to date on thread topic so wasn’t aware.

It did cross my mind about staffing but then if that’s the case, why did they build the Nightingale hospitals in the first place, unless it was a publicity stunt - albeit a rather expensive one?
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At the time, I believed they had the resource as they asked retired professionals to return to work temporarily.
 
FantasyIreland said:
An ignorant comment given,for many with various types/degrees of mental health problems,the gym/exercise,and the associated environment,is the most effective medicine they can get.

To close such a facility will cause far more harm than good.
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Wasn't meant to be ignorant, so apologies if it came over that way.

My point was exercise can be taken anywhere as was proven during lockdown, with online gym sessions being provided.

Locking a gym up for a few weeks, will impact the owners, but the masses will imo, not be severely impacted.
 
ganganvince said:
Staffing was intended (in March) to be a combination of current NHS staff that csn be released by closing non essential clinics, final year students, retired staff recalled and army medics.
www.england.nhs.uk

NHS England » New NHS nightingale hospital to fight coronavirus

NHS England » New NHS nightingale hospital to fight coronavirus
www.england.nhs.uk www.england.nhs.uk
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That was the plan but delivering hospital services is complex. For example, Ambulance services are unlikely to agree to redirect patients from going to the local hospital unless they are confident in the ability of the new service to do the job properly. These are problems NHS services have struggled with for donkeys but Covid has shone a light on it.

We also know that many of the volunteers returning were older and more susceptible to the virus.and a number died early on.

We barely had the capacity to deal with existing conditions before Covid arrived.
 
marcus said:
I get that. Totally. But it isnt going away anytime soon.

pubs open are no problem if they are safe. My gym has staff walking round with big sprayers on a constant loop.

where as i sympathise with the fella above being stuck in for 7 months it doesnt help us ALL being stuck in. Detrimental if Anything.

be safe, wash hands, wear masks when required...

... keep fining thems that dont and heavy fines/closures for establishments that dont enforce
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Catching up on the last few pages I find myself agreeing mainly with those who are arguing with you.

But with the above post, you are right. If people wear masks as required (properly, not under their fucking chins FFS), socially distance, wash hands meticulously... then this thing goes away. Or at the very least remains well under control.

It is spiralling out of control because there is more than a small minority of tossers who are completely ignoring the rules. We need to be MUCH more crisp in our messaging, making it crystal clear what is/is not acceptable. And throwing the fucking book at the tossers who break the rules. None of this "have a quiet word with them" bollocks. Draconian punishments unless/until people get the message.
 
There is clearly a requirement to find the best solution to firing the economy back up/getting people back to work while also protecting the most vulnerable in society.

The one size fits all approach is obviously not the answer,as the evidence is proving.
 
marcus said:
Wouldnt be easier if the 1% stayed in for another 3-6 months rather than the 99%?
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1%? that was the initial figure for death rate wasn't it. I think im right in saying that it's around 4 million in this country who are in the vulnerable category. more if you take into account family members who have stayed in a bubble with them.
 
mosssideblue said:
Then, until we have a safe vaccine, the pain continues
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Yes I believe so. And as someone with parents and parents in law in their 80s, and children/stepchildren aged between 18 and 31, I can tell you that everyone is suffering. My mum has cancer and 2020 will be her last year. We’ve not done any of the things we would love to have done as a family. My 87 year old father in law has lost all the things that made his life worth living. His woodwork class, walking group, volunteering at the NT all gone. My stepson in Madrid has lost his business. My 18 year old had her A levels cancelled, her driving test now cancelled 5 times, her gap year job with Theatre In Education gone. She is now working at McDonald’s. This isn’t a battle between old and young.
 
hilts said:
So we should have a total lock down except essential services then?
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No not at all, but pubs, gyms can go. Everything non essential should like drink, exercise indoors getting your nails done can close for a mth in the hope to drive down infection numbers. Getting medical services open across the board is more important than indoor leisure activities.
 
mosssideblue said:
Wasn't meant to be ignorant, so apologies if it came over that way.

My point was exercise can be taken anywhere as was proven during lockdown, with online gym sessions being provided.

Locking a gym up for a few weeks, will impact the owners, but the masses will imo, not be severely impacted.
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Cheers.

Some forms of exercise can be taken anywhere but many folk won't have access to the space/gym equipment they require.They will also be missing out on the hugely influential social aspect of the environment - talking with like minded individuals is as equally important to the lifting of weights IMO.

My point is clear,gym's can be made safe places,and there is no need for them to close - it won't prevent this problem becoming worse but it might create/exacerbate a few more.
 
Mon Autre said:
I fully supported lockdown first time around. Infections were spiralling out of control and we needed to get a grip. Given what we saw in hospitals I think it was entirely sensible to lockdown.

The government had a responsibility to use that time to get a vaguely effective test and trace system in place (and we were promised something much better than that) and devise a plan for how the university year would begin in September. They failed us all spectacularly.

Instead they spent that time dishing out public money to people totally unqualified to implement the systems we needed and they prioritised the needs of student landlords in making sure term began, regardless of the consequences. Hundreds of thousands of kids locked into contracts, sent to all ends of the country to mingle in close proximity and then locked up within days and told they've behaved selfishly.

This time around, responsible pub and cafe owners are being scapegoated for the glaring failures in other areas.

It's been obvious for months and has been pointed out many times over that the government's intention right now if for us all to be shifting the blame onto eachother. Their failings and the lack of action are there for all to see. I don't feel bad for originally supporting lockdown (alongside a good support package for businesses affected). So don't blame people like me for this shit show, blame the people who are in charge of it.

Week on week, we are seeing huge decisions being taken by government that will affect millions of people's lives across different regions and they are not being communicated properly (or even at all.) Massive restrictions on lives being speculated about for days, and still being unclear with a matter hours before so called restrictions come into place. Government ministers, including the Prime Minister, incorrectly explaining rules after they've come into force. They are cultivating an environment where people are desensitised to grave nature of new restrictions when they're brought in and they are unable to explain any scientific rationale behind it. No wonder people are confused and angry. They have no idea how they're impacting the lives of everyday people and it's obvious they don't care either.
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We urgently need pandemic management teams in every single county containing panels of doctors and other knowledgeable people which are disconnected from government. That panel would then be accountable for using its powers to set the rules, communicate them and inform people on how it's going and what's next.

I live in Lancashire and there are still people out there who honestly don't know that you can't go to another persons house, I know it because I've seen it. Either those people are choosing to ignore the rules or actually they have no idea what the rules are.

With these stupid tier systems etc the government is just trying to look busy and what's the point when no-one understands what they can or cannot do? If I turned off the news this morning and went about my day then I'd have no idea that tonight I might be banned from going to the pub.

The councils have been a total waste of space, we are in a pandemic affecting the local area yet they aren't part of the management or conversation on the issue so who is? We are always relying on the governments national message but the government cannot possibly manage everything centrally. The most successful countries manage the pandemic locally where they are able to quickly lockdown which shortens the time needed to return to normal.

I've had information (leaflets and letters) from the council telling me that my bin day is changing but no information on the virus. I've even had a letter from my local councillor about opposing a housing development but NOTHING from him about a pandemic that is killing people and making so many people redundant.

I don't know if this is all the governments fault but seriously our failing national response is purely because we have a national and local political system that is completely unfit for purpose. It has so far served nothing and most people would be far safer just learning about the virus and fending for themselves.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Catching up on the last few pages I find myself agreeing mainly with those who are arguing with you.

But with the above post, you are right. If people wear masks as required (properly, not under their fucking chins FFS), socially distance, wash hands meticulously... then this thing goes away. Or at the very least remains well under control.

It is spiralling out of control because there is more than a small minority of tossers who are completely ignoring the rules. We need to be MUCH more crisp in our messaging, making it crystal clear what is/is not acceptable. And throwing the fucking book at the tossers who break the rules. None of this "have a quiet word with them" bollocks. Draconian punishments unless/until people get the message.
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I agree but unfortunately the govt is useless and we have a few posters who are understandably upset but are taking their anger out on posters who can see where the problem lies.

It isn't with well run pubs or gyms. They're as self interested as those not following the rules im afraid.
 
artfuldodger said:
Yes I believe so. And as someone with parents and parents in law in their 80s, and children/stepchildren aged between 18 and 31, I can tell you that everyone is suffering. My mum has cancer and 2020 will be her last year. We’ve not done any of the things we would love to have done as a family. My 87 year old father in law has lost all the things that made his life worth living. His woodwork class, walking group, volunteering at the NT all gone. My stepson in Madrid has lost his business. My 18 year old had her A levels cancelled, her driving test now cancelled 5 times, her gap year job with Theatre In Education gone. She is now working at McDonald’s. This isn’t a battle between old and young.
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I am truly sorry for the suffering you and your family are facing. As I have posted many times, whilst there are sections of society acting as they please, there will be many more stories like yours.
 
everythingchangesbutblue said:
No not at all, but pubs, gyms can go. Everything non essential should like drink, exercise indoors getting your nails done can close for a mth in the hope to drive down infection numbers. Getting medical services open across the board is more important than indoor leisure activities.
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So you would shut

Pubs
Gyms
Restaurants
Cafe
Most Shops
Most factories
Uni"s
Schools
Reduce public transport
Sport

Anything else ?
 
thing i dont get is that everyone here has a personal 'threshold', a level at which they see deaths from covid as acceptable to release and return to certain ways of life. For some that is now, for others it is more towards zero. Problem is, everyone has that subjective threshold within them and they see it to be more tolerable/acceptable than someone else's. The thread is descending into a slagging match.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Catching up on the last few pages I find myself agreeing mainly with those who are arguing with you.

But with the above post, you are right. If people wear masks as required (properly, not under their fucking chins FFS), socially distance, wash hands meticulously... then this thing goes away. Or at the very least remains well under control.

It is spiralling out of control because there is more than a small minority of tossers who are completely ignoring the rules. We need to be MUCH more crisp in our messaging, making it crystal clear what is/is not acceptable. And throwing the fucking book at the tossers who break the rules. None of this "have a quiet word with them" bollocks. Draconian punishments unless/until people get the message.
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Who is going to communicate this message though? The government has tried but surely that leaves it to the local council areas but they aren't doing anything whatsoever on the subject, not a single thing.

I won't even consider the police enforcing things because I've been out a few times this weekend and not seen a single police car. It is impossible for them to enforce the rules except when the one police officer for the whole county comes across someone not doing as they should be.

We can have Boris come on at 8pm tonight to shout at us again but the viewing figures show that less than 10% of the population will watch. How do you get the message out to the other 90% who are watching another repeat of Pointless or (ironically) are in the pub?

I've just put up another post on this but there needs to be a locally led mass-communication program (leaflets, letters or whatever) which tells people preferably in a large red bold font what the rules are. There is then quite literally no excuse.
 
hilts said:
So you would shut

Pubs
Gyms
Restaurants
Cafe
Most Shops
Most factories
Uni"s
Schools
Reduce public transport
Sport

Anything else ?
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I would shut
Pubs
Gyms
Uni's
Schools
All just for about 1 mths to see if any effect. I agree people need to work and need to have things to take their minds of of things but don't think people really need their nails done or can't exercise outdoors for a mth.
Restaurants i am not sure, i would probably close but i have heard some good arguments on here that they are not hotbeds for contagion so i would try other measures before closing them. I think it's reasonable that people be able to have a sit down meal rather than a piss up.

Not every argument has to be us vs them, Left vs Right, black vs White. I just think some short term measures need to happen to drive numbers down.
 
My leaving drink after work is going to be a complicated affair. They're letting a few of us knock off in the afternoon to go out, they're going to be replaced by the late finishers and then people working from home are coming in. We're having to have a shift change to accommodate the rule of six...
 
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