#8 | Ilkay Gündoğan - 2020/21 Performances

[FantasyIreland]

Takeover is maybe the wrong term. We used to have two players with that quality, and now we only have one, and Pep values it to the extent he'd prefer someone on the pitch who brings it with him.

Are you seriously comparing what Merlin brought to the table with what Gundogan does and suggesting they are similar?

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

Are you seriously comparing what Merlin brought to the table with what Gundogan does and suggesting they are similar?

No, I'm not seriously suggesting that. I'm saying the reason he plays is because Pep values the la pausa quality. Silva was one of the greatest of all time to do, and he struggles because of that comparison. But we don't have another player who can play that role, so until we do he will continue to play.

 

[FantasyIreland]

No, I'm not seriously suggesting that. I'm saying the reason he plays is because Pep values the la pausa quality. Silva was one of the greatest of all time to do, and he struggles because of that comparison. But we don't have another player who can play that role, so until we do he will continue to play.

I would say Bernardo is far more comparable and suited to that role.Perhaps even Foden if given the chance.

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

I would say Bernardo is far more comparable and suited to that role.Perhaps even Foden if given the chance.

I think both are better players, certainly both carry the ball, work harder and have a better killer pass (though I do like Gundogan's floated over the top balls). But they don't have the ability to dictate the momentum of the game, slowing it down and speeding it up, and moving the ball round the midfield to a beat, in the way Silva always had and Gundogan has when he's playing well (eg, the record number of passes against Chelsea). I'm not saying I'd pick him, I'm explaining why Pep does.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I think both are better players, certainly both carry the ball, work harder and have a better killer pass (though I do like Gundogan's floated over the top balls). But they don't have the ability to dictate the momentum of the game, slowing it down and speeding it up, and moving the ball round the midfield to a beat, in the way Silva always had and Gundogan has when he's playing well (eg, the record number of passes against Chelsea). I'm not saying I'd pick him, I'm explaining why Pep does.

Yeah i understand what you're saying now,cheers.

 

[jimmygrimblesboots]

Gundogan came on as sub against the Goons played 19 passes 100% completion , the opposition dont score if they cant get the ball , maybe Pep has cottoned on to something

 

[Shaelumstash]

Do you realise other teams arn't as good as Liverpool and Real. Sometimes we cant dominate and have to try and counter what the other team do. Gundogan is not the main creator, he is the recycler for our other more creative players. Against teams who play similar to us and keep the ball well, we need players who also keep the ball well. If we have the ball, the other team cant score and those 5 yard passes backwards sideways wherever keep the ball moving and away from their players. The ball does the work and the other team have to counter where the ball moves too. That conserves our energy and drains there energy. That Is why possession is so important. It is harder to defend without the ball as the whole team is playing and reacting against one man at a time. That makes space because you are pulling opposition players across the park, your own players can almost stand still or ghost into areas where the opposition team have vacated.

As for Aouar. the as time I looked he doesn't play for us so I don't know why he is even being spoke about as this is not fantasy football and from what I have seen he wouldn't do the job Gundogan does anyway. He is a good player yes, but so is Pogba and even Henderson but neither would be right for us because they don't play the way Gundogan does.

There is a real misconception that every midfielder has to be able to be a world beating passer of the ball, not even the great Barca side had that, they had Busquets doing the job that Gundogan does for us, which is recycle and give it to the more creative players and keep possession. Recycling and winning the ball is two different jobs as well, under Pep we defend from the front and the forward players are the first line of defence, the age of the midfield hard man has gone, you wouldn't see a Gerry Gow in the premier anymore because he was not good enough as a footballer bless him. He was great at winning the ball, but not so good once he had it.

I get our fans need a scapegoat, we have always had one that the fans like to moan about, from Paul Power to Richard Edgehill to Stefan Savic, Gundogan seems the player now in fashion to be the one to moan about. The facts say different though, he plays for Germany who are one best teams on the planet, he plays for City one of the best club teams in the world and still you have to fucking moan and whinge like little girls and play some idealised game of fantasy football in your heads where everyone scores 10 a game and we win ever game 100-0

Now you may not rate him, I have players I don't rate as well as football is a game of opinions, most of which are inconsequential because we have no say who gets picked thank fuck. Don't be a sheep though and follow fashion though, Gundogan might not be Kev but then who is, he might not be Silva but then who is, but what he does he does well and is an integral part of one of the best squads in our history and if he is picked to play I trust the best manager in our history has a good reason to pick him. You may not, that is fine, but to be honest I prefer the tactical nous of a man who has won loads of trophies over some kids who once won the FA Cup playing FIFA 2006.

Have fun everyone and keep smiling :))

What an awfully long-winded way of saying Gundogan is there to keep possession.

Rodri is there to keep possession too. But he also passes forwards. And wins possession back. In fact he won it back 11 times the other night. Gundog hasn’t won possession back 11 times combined since about 2017.

I remember a fella that was brilliant at keeping possession, finding a forward pass, cutting off passing lanes, tracking runners, intercepting possession and helping to set the tempo. His name was Fernandinho. He’s getting on a bit now, maybe he’s not fashionable anymore? The new Gerry Gow?

Another poster asked who else was out there who could replace Fernandinho and do a similar job. I mentioned Aouar. It’s not “Fantasy Football” or “FIFA”, it’s a viable option of a player we’ve been linked with, who’s available for about about £10m less than we just paid for Dias. It’s not fantasy. He’s very gettable.

Everyone knows Gundogan can recycle possession. But there are plenty of players who can do that. And there are players who can do that who don’t play in slow motion and can (god forbid) win possession back and read the play as well.

Gundo’s not been fit for purpose for a good while now. Richard Edghill getting pelters in the 90s doesn’t make that any less true.

 

[Rascal]

What an awfully long-winded way of saying Gundogan is there to keep possession.

Rodri is there to keep possession too. But he also passes forwards. And wins possession back. In fact he won it back 11 times the other night. Gundog hasn’t won possession back 11 times combined since about 2017.

I remember a fella that was brilliant at keeping possession, finding a forward pass, cutting off passing lanes, tracking runners, intercepting possession and helping to set the tempo. His name was Fernandinho. He’s getting on a bit now, maybe he’s not fashionable anymore? The new Gerry Gow?

Another poster asked who else was out there who could replace Fernandinho and do a similar job. I mentioned Aouar. It’s not “Fantasy Football” or “FIFA”, it’s a viable option of a player we’ve been linked with, who’s available for about about £10m less than we just paid for Dias. It’s not fantasy. He’s very gettable.

Everyone knows Gundogan can recycle possession. But there are plenty of players who can do that. And there are players who can do that who don’t play in slow motion and can (god forbid) win possession back and read the play as well.

Gundo’s not been fit for purpose for a good while now. Richard Edghill getting pelters in the 90s doesn’t make that any less true.

What an awfully long winded way to say you don't rate Gundogan.

 

[jimmygrimblesboots]

Gundogan missed the last three Germany games , 2 draws against Turkey & Switzerland and struggled to beat Ukraine 2-1 , you can bet Louw will select him for the next game , as will Pep against West Ham

 

[asahartford1]

What an awfully long winded way to say you don't rate Gundogan.

It's also a way of saying he doesn't rate pep, as is the thread heading, without the balls to do so.

 

[B\connellblue]

Has managed to be even slower than he was. That took some doing.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

Nolito was a weird signing, and you could argue that Bravo might have been better if he’d arrived a season later, and subsequently been less exposed.. However, he still played well in a couple of Finals and Penalty Shootouts.
A combination of injuries and hindsight have reduced Mendy’s impact, whilst Danillo neither delighted nor irritated.
The jury has been out on John Stones for a few seasons, but that’s about it for Pep's major signings.

In contrast, Gundogen was a decent signing, but suffers from not being as fashionable as De Bruyne.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Nolito was a weird signing, and you could argue that Bravo might have been better if he’d arrived a season later, and subsequently been less exposed.. However, he still played well in a couple of Finals and Penalty Shootouts.
A combination of injuries and hindsight have reduced Mendy’s impact, whilst Danillo neither delighted nor irritated.
The jury has been out on John Stones for a few seasons, but that’s about it for Pep's major signings.

In contrast, Gundogen was a decent signing, but suffers from not being as fashionable as De Bruyne.

By 'fashionable' you mean worth 200 million more ?

 

[domalino]

Has managed to be even slower than he was. That took some doing.

It really is shocking that the guy who has had no preseason whatsoever and is recovering from a devastating virus was not immediately 100% up to the speed of the first game he played in since July.

 

[asahartford1]

Has managed to be even slower than he was. That took some doing.

I would love to see you doing a bit of coaching.
Pay for the privilege in fact.)

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

By 'fashionable' you mean worth 200 million more ?

City were cruising 3-0 at the swamp until De Bruyne fucked-up, with an unnecessary reverse pass that wrong-footed his team mates, and left the Rags with a 3 v 2 counter attack.
Nobody said a word on this forum, (even though it wasn't the first time), but Gundogen would have been slaughtered.
That's how I define fashionable.

They're both good players, so let's leave it there.

 

[Neville Kneville]

City were cruising 3-0 at the swamp until De Bruyne fucked-up, with an unnecessary reverse pass that wrong-footed his team mates, and left the Rags with a 3 v 2 counter attack.
Nobody said a word on this forum, (even though it wasn't the first time), but Gundogen would have been slaughtered.
That's how I define fashionable.

They're both good players, so let's leave it there.

The differerence is: DeBruyne is there to do a different job.

Gundogan, Rodri are there to recycle & recover the ball, so KDB etc can play with freedom & make occasional mistakes.

So if Gundogan & Rodri give the ball away they have no real purpose being on the pitch.

 

[FantasyIreland]

City were cruising 3-0 at the swamp until De Bruyne fucked-up, with an unnecessary reverse pass that wrong-footed his team mates, and left the Rags with a 3 v 2 counter attack.
Nobody said a word on this forum, (even though it wasn't the first time), but Gundogen would have been slaughtered.
That's how I define fashionable.

They're both good players, so let's leave it there.

KDB is on another planet,he has won us more games than i can remember,you can call that 'fashionable' if it floats your boat.....lets leave it there,instead.

 

[BillyShears]

It's also a way of saying he doesn't rate pep, as is the thread heading, without the balls to do so.

He ain't the only one.

Reminds me of the people who hate Txiki but won't have a bad word said about Khaldoon.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I actually think the formation Pep played v Arsenal could suit him, when fit. With Bernardo & Cancelo etc.

Obviously I'd rather have it suiting someone better, but he might be more active in that system & even nick the odd goal.