Another new Brexit thread

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I cannot help feeling a sense of anxiety in the words that reaffirm resounding support for the EU's negotiating approach from this fella

icmsa.ie

As Talks Enter “Brexit Home straight” ICMSA Wants Govt Eyes Fixed On Irish Economic Interests - ICMSA

The President of ICMSA has said that as intensive negotiations resume on what Pat McCormack said could, hopefully, turn out to be the “Brexit home straight”, it is vital that the Irish Government kept its gaze fixed on what Irish farming and agri-food required by way of new post-Brexit trading...
icmsa.ie icmsa.ie
 
Vic said:
www.theguardian.com

UK police 'unable to cope' if no-deal Brexit cuts EU data sharing

Former terror law reviewer Lord Anderson warns of serious impact on fight against cross-border crime
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Honestly even in the worst doomsday scenario you could dream up, the non cooperation of us and the EU on crime and terrorism is simply never ever going too happen.

We are a major intelligence asset, a member of 5 eyes and whilst this wont fit with the narrative on here, they really do need us more than we need them. It matters not a jot though, non cooperation is simply never going too happen.
 
Vic said:
No, it's your game, and I don't know the rules. Is this the bit where I put my neck in a noose?
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Good grief - this is like watching my daughter some years ago on a Easter egg hunt.

I would see her walking around the garden and I would be thinking - OMG - it's not difficult - they are obvious - I can see them from here!!!

Eventually I normally ended up having to give her some clues. There was a balance needed though - because she did not want me to simply tell her - she wanted to find them for herself

I feel that I might have to do something similar here
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Go on then son - help your class mates out
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Well it’s arguably not as beneficial to the Uk fishing industry as a no deal which would see a significant increase in the volume of fish we could potentially catch however it would provide a three year period in which we could build up the uk fleet to take advantage of those increased volumes. It also ensures continued tariff free trade. In addition it gives the EU fishing industry time to adjust and provides a political olive branch to offset against some of the movement we expect the EU to make on LPF.

now I want a gold star at least or is this where you pat me on the head in a condescending manner and say ‘good effort molesworth 1 but the real reason is ... ‘
 
I should have added, in a transition period it will be interesting to see if the uk gets increased Eu fleet landing catch in UK ports. This clearly would have its own economic advantages.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Well it’s arguably not as beneficial to the Uk fishing industry as a no deal which would see a significant increase in the volume of fish we could potentially catch however it would provide a three year period in which we could build up the uk fleet to take advantage of those increased volumes. It also ensures continued tariff free trade. In addition it gives the EU fishing industry time to adjust and provides a political olive branch to offset against some of the movement we expect the EU to make on LPF.

now I want a gold star at least or is this where you pat me on the head in a condescending manner and say ‘good effort molesworth 1 but the real reason is ... ‘
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In fairness, by keeping him engaged you are saving his daughter from some concocted game or task where he can scream ‘it is so OBVIOUS!’ at her.

Well done Molesworth 1.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I cannot help feeling a sense of anxiety in the words that reaffirm resounding support for the EU's negotiating approach from this fella

icmsa.ie

As Talks Enter “Brexit Home straight” ICMSA Wants Govt Eyes Fixed On Irish Economic Interests - ICMSA

The President of ICMSA has said that as intensive negotiations resume on what Pat McCormack said could, hopefully, turn out to be the “Brexit home straight”, it is vital that the Irish Government kept its gaze fixed on what Irish farming and agri-food required by way of new post-Brexit trading...
icmsa.ie icmsa.ie
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Is that not also the concern of British farmers?

Shame really that you want a ‘genuine Brexit’ with nothing to tie us to the EU, as the lack of an Agreement will cause a lot of harm to the farming communities on both sides of the unfortunate divide that now exists between ourselves and Europe.
 
BobKowalski said:
In fairness, by keeping him engaged you are saving his daughter from some concocted game or task where he can scream ‘it is so OBVIOUS!’ at her.

Well done Molesworth 1.
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I'm sure I have seen @mcfc1632 on the fast show. The guy that plays cricket with his small children and keeps hitting the ball out of the park whilst shouting, cmon little Johnnie, that offbreak was absolutely useless.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Well it’s arguably not as beneficial to the Uk fishing industry as a no deal which would see a significant increase in the volume of fish we could potentially catch however it would provide a three year period in which we could build up the uk fleet to take advantage of those increased volumes. It also ensures continued tariff free trade. In addition it gives the EU fishing industry time to adjust and provides a political olive branch to offset against some of the movement we expect the EU to make on LPF.

now I want a gold star at least or is this where you pat me on the head in a condescending manner and say ‘good effort molesworth 1 but the real reason is ... ‘
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No condescension from me - and there rarely - if ever - is from me towards your posts.

Indeed - I have often expressed how it is good to discuss detail with you - I just wish that you were more balanced and consistent when you decide to get on a soapbox about the level of silliness on here - i.e. when you pull someone up it is 100% aimed at Leavers and never at Remainers

But anyway - your assessment is pretty much on the sweet spot but, without any condescension, I would suggest the benefits to the UK are greater than described

When you take what you identify as the core then develop it - you will see many more benefits come in to view - and you will probably consider that it is indeed better not just for the UK - but the UK fishing industry than a no-deal outcome would be. I would suggest significantly so.

What we do not want is a 'deal' that confers rights to the EU on a long term basis. Much better all the rights they currently have for 3 years - not reduced levels/increased levels for the UK as part of a TA.

Happy to expand later. Indeed - I have not been playing a game as some suggest and I have several times asked Remainers to engage but they have not until now.

Well apart from the few that I will not engage with because of their 'styles'
 
BobKowalski said:
Is that not also the concern of British farmers?

Shame really that you want a ‘genuine Brexit’ with nothing to tie us to the EU, as the lack of an Agreement will cause a lot of harm to the farming communities on both sides of the unfortunate divide that now exists between ourselves and Europe.
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As is your wont - you are quoting a post of mine to - but then making a different point and not addressing the one that I raised.

The point raised in my post was:
mcfc1632 said:
I cannot help feeling a sense of anxiety in the words that reaffirm resounding support for the EU's negotiating approach from this fella
Click to expand...
 
mcfc1632 said:
Good grief - this is like watching my daughter some years ago on a Easter egg hunt.

I would see her walking around the garden and I would be thinking - OMG - it's not difficult - they are obvious - I can see them from here!!!

Eventually I normally ended up having to give her some clues. There was a balance needed though - because she did not want me to simply tell her - she wanted to find them for herself

I feel that I might have to do something similar here
Click to expand...
You're getting weird. Of course it was obvious where the eggs were. You hid them.
 
mcfc1632 said:
As is your wont - you are quoting a post of mine to - but then making a different point and not addressing the one that I raised.
Click to expand...

Yes. Because you seem incapable of understanding that what is true for Ireland or France, to name but two, is also true of the UK.

For Brexiteers the point of Brexit and these negotiations is to ensure the EU, or neighbouring European countries as I like to call them, is weakened or damaged in some way. As if we can only measure our own worth by the damage we can inflict on others.

There is the constant demeaning of European countries, and countries in our own Union. Even during a pandemic there is no sense of wanting to work with European countries. We had the refusal to extend transition as the whole of Europe heads into a second wave, no help for British industry trying to cope with these difficult times, instead we force more change on them, insisting they get ready for trade barriers, more admin, more paperwork.

It is this grim pursuit of rupturing ties and cooperation with Europe, no matter the cost or the circumstances that is so unedifying, pathological almost, and indeed, so obvious.
 
mcfc1632 said:
No condescension from me - and there rarely - if ever - is from me towards your posts.

Indeed - I have often expressed how it is good to discuss detail with you - I just wish that you were more balanced and consistent when you decide to get on a soapbox about the level of silliness on here - i.e. when you pull someone up it is 100% aimed at Leavers and never at Remainers

But anyway - your assessment is pretty much on the sweet spot but, without any condescension, I would suggest the benefits to the UK are greater than described

When you take what you identify as the core then develop it - you will see many more benefits come in to view - and you will probably consider that it is indeed better not just for the UK - but the UK fishing industry than a no-deal outcome would be. I would suggest significantly so.

What we do not want is a 'deal' that confers rights to the EU on a long term basis. Much better all the rights they currently have for 3 years - not reduced levels/increased levels for the UK as part of a TA.

Happy to expand later. Indeed - I have not been playing a game as some suggest and I have several times asked Remainers to engage but they have not until now.

Well apart from the few that I will not engage with because of their 'styles'
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Now you're just gaslghting. Do I need to quote all the posts where I offered reasons why we should do a deal on fishing and asked you to talk about fish, farming and factories? My "style" seems to be asking awkward questions.

As for "When you take what you identify as the core then develop it - you will see many more benefits come in to view - and you will probably consider that it is indeed better not just for the UK - but the UK fishing industry than a no-deal outcome would be. I would suggest significantly so." that is just more "word soup". How did you negotiate anything if no-one knows what you mean?
 
Vic said:
Now you're just gaslghting. Do I need to quote all the posts where I offered reasons why we should do a deal on fishing and asked you to talk about fish, farming and factories? My "style" seems to be asking awkward questions.

As for "When you take what you identify as the core then develop it - you will see many more benefits come in to view - and you will probably consider that it is indeed better not just for the UK - but the UK fishing industry than a no-deal outcome would be. I would suggest significantly so." that is just more "word soup". How did you negotiate anything if no-one knows what you mean?
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Nope - I would politely suggest that you need to stop bothering me with your attempts to get me to engage with you

I have made clear that I will not do that because you are - IMO - not capable of engaging in debate without quickly becoming deceitful in the manner in which you twist the words of others

Re fishing - every post you have made on the subject that I can recall has simply demonstrated a lack of understanding

You bang on about the current arrangements - where fish are landed - what fish are eaten - where fish are exported to, how it is such a small %age of the economy etc.

All your posts do is demonstrate that you have no understanding of the topic of fishing in the context of these negotiations

Yes - you have asked me to engage with you

No - I will not for the reasons I have already provided

I am not alone on taking that attitude - perhaps you should consider reviewing your 'style'

As soon as a Remainer that is interested in debate replied - I came straight back - and will be happy to discuss the topic further with him - including expanding on my comments that you labelled word soup

As an aside - what is that thing with you 3? - when you learn a new word or term you then try and insert into every post you can - something else that reminds me of my daughter in her early years.
 
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Problem with "engaging" on this thread is it increasingly results in your posts being deleted anyway so why bother?

We should rename it the Bob, Vic and Didsbury show.

I'm off to our Tory/Trump threads where the debate and conversations are way more toxic but are seemingly ignored.
 
My concerns with regard to engaging with those 3 is that:

2 twist the words of other posters to suggest that they have said something that they have not - which I find deceitful

1 seeks to goad posters into making comments that they can then report

3 have no tolerance of the views of Leave advocates being posted and discussed and will continually distract from what was posted to prevent that happening. They go through periods of total success during which the thread becomes generally reduced to a Remainer echo chamber

Perhaps it is as simple as they do see the thread as the Bob, Vic and Didsbury show? and feel 'righteous indignation' when someone interrupts:

Sorry - I have just had a flashback to Jackson in Pulp Fiction and I can now see these 3 quoting "“Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness."

Maybe this is how they see themselves;-)

BTW - just a joke!!
 
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blueinsa said:
Problem with "engaging" on this thread is it increasingly results in your posts being deleted anyway so why bother?

We should rename it the Bob, Vic and Didsbury show.

I'm off to our Tory/Trump threads where the debate and conversations are way more toxic but are seemingly ignored.
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