The Labour Party

hilts said:
Anyhow we could go round in circles here so out of curiosity would you say the following is true(no caveats)

labour had a problem with some anti Semitic behaviour, for either political or ideological reasons those in power firstly denied, then deflected and then dragged their feet dealing with it. Those at the top including Corbyn, Macdonnell, Starmer must have known and have caused unnecessary pain to Jewish people.
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100% TRUE.
 
Rascal said:
No whataboutery from me.

Starmer has split the party, it started with his treatment of RLB and he has gone out of his way to get rid of the left just like Blair and Kinnock before him did. Why the fuck are these people even in the Labour party, they are just using it as vessel for power, they are not Socialists, they are metro liberals.

What Starmer and his mystery backers want is a much smaller Labour Party, one where the membership has little or no influence, one where donors money is more important than members money so that at the next and subsequent elections the fight is over which party gets to maintain the neo-liberal status quo which of course benefits only a small number of people including Starmer's mysterious donors. Starmer does not care about the left, he actively wants rid of the left because mass memberships are a hinderance to establishment politicians. They get in the way of the most important thing, making their friends and backers more cash.

The left have ideals and for want of a better phrase "want to change the world" that does not fit with the capitalist class and as a result the capitalist class will do everything in their power to stop mass membership parties gaining traction.

The report, quite rightly of course has to be recognised for what it is and acted upon with utmost haste because antisemitism is a stain on society but the pros and cons of the report pale into significance when it is examined in a purely party political focus. It has all but destroyed the labour party, it has created the perfect conditions for the marginalisation of the left and all this at a time when the biggest threat to our country since WW2 is being woefully mismanaged by a gang of buffoons with a nut job as leader. Sadly said buffoons and nutjob now have a free pass to carry on with their wanton destruction of the UK state, their handing of taxpayers money to their mates and the continual lying about levelling up. This is because if nutjob and his buffoons lose the next election, the nuh=job and buffoon dopplegangers will be in place and the whole shebang carries on unabated, inequality, poverty, homelessness will not be addressed, what will matter is who gave either nutjob and buffoons the most cash.

What a pitiful state UK politics is in. The biggest fear now, is the rise of anti politics and that should worry everyone whatever your viewpoint, because anti politics is well, we all know that don't we.
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RLB deserved it.
 
Rascal said:
100% TRUE.
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Thanks for that fella I think you and PB aren’t as far apart on this as you both think. I think just the delivery sometimes and your individual passion for socialism and Jewish concerns individually make it seem so. You are both decent people never lose sight of that.

We may be miles apart politically but please don’t feel the need on here or elsewhere to stop fighting your fight.
 
hilts said:
Thanks for that fella I think you and PB aren’t as far apart on this as you both think. I think just the delivery sometimes and your individual passion for socialism and Jewish concerns individually make it seem so. You are both decent people never lose sight of that.

We may be miles apart politically but please don’t feel the need on here or elsewhere to stop fighting your fight.
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Thank you.
 
Rascal said:
No whataboutery from me.

Starmer has split the party, it started with his treatment of RLB and he has gone out of his way to get rid of the left just like Blair and Kinnock before him did. Why the fuck are these people even in the Labour party, they are just using it as vessel for power, they are not Socialists, they are metro liberals.
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You act as if labour belongs to the hard left. Blair, kinnock and Starmer were all voted in as leader by the membership. Starmer only just this year.

Corbyn was finished with his disastrous election result. RLB failed to become leader by a good margin. Do you not accept the results of all those leadership contests.
 
Gaudion M said:
You act as if labour belongs to the hard left. Blair, kinnock and Starmer were all voted in as leader by the membership. Starmer only just this year.

Corbyn was finished with his disastrous election result. RLB failed to become leader by a good margin. Do you not accept the results of all those leadership contests.
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I act out of knowing how the left (hard ffs) is treated when the right have the upper hand in the party.

The left, me included were delighted when Blair won, he was voted in by all parts of the party as he promised the earth, but took the left for granted as if we would always be there and we ended up being just voting fodder for him to do as he wished and he didn't deliver on his promises to the left. During that time the left stayed broadly loyal, a few minor exceptions but broadly loyal as he was elected leader and PM. Brown and Ed Miliband were also backed by the left and again the left stayed loyal and upheld party unity. The left stayed loyal even when twats like Reeves voted for welfare cuts, we didn't moan or stage a coup, we were unified behind the leadership.

Then Corbyn won again voted in by a majority of party members, but almost straight away the PLP plotted against the left and organised a coup. The right of the Labour party are the ones who are disloyal, it was them who plotted and undermined the Labour party and after all those years of us on the left backing leaders who came from the right of the party it stuck in the craw. We did our bit for party loyalty but got zero loyalty in return from the right.

So no I don't act as though the Labour party belongs to the left, I do think it should be a Socialist party and not a socially liberal party but I have always voted Labour since I was old enough to vote and I remained loyal through the years of disappointment in Labour leaders espousing right wing virtues, when the lefts chance finally came, we were never shown the same loyalty we had given through the Thatcher years or the Blair years, we were plotted against, smeared and ridiculed as cultists and the right of the party stood and watched, then joined in and party unity disappeared.

Why should myself and other on the left who showed so much loyalty through all those years only to be shown disloyalty when our chance came have any respect at all from a person on the right of the party trying the same old tricks that we have seen before. They want our votes, they don't want our voices. What sort of democracy is that, when all you are thought of is as votes and especially when votes will be used to push policies that are not Socialist.
 
Incredible decision by the National Executive.
The Labour Party is institutionally racist and has no intention of changing.

IT IS UNELECTABLE.
 
I'll have to wait until the manifestos are released but as a swing voter, I can't imagine I'll be voting Labour in 2024 with this rabble still in it. Bad move from Labour.
 
Expected responses.


Was always going to be readmitted if he showed any contrition even minor so all the faux outrage is pointless even if just to prove a point.

Saying that jezza should now shut it and do his constituency job without all the other nonsense
 
BlueAnorak said:
Incredible decision by the National Executive.
The Labour Party is institutionally racist and has no intention of changing.

IT IS UNELECTABLE.
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So policy wise you think the party is great and is needed to solve the inequality in society and bring about fairness, decent housing for all, decent schools, decent hospitals, proper taxation of wealth, social justice, etc etc etc., You think all those are the right and proper policies that will benefit everyone in the country. You think that don't you, but they are unelectable only because of antisemitism.
 
Rascal said:
So policy wise you think the party is great and is needed to solve the inequality in society and bring about fairness, decent housing for all, decent schools, decent hospitals, proper taxation of wealth, social justice, etc etc etc., You think all those are the right and proper policies that will benefit everyone in the country. You think that don't you, but they are unelectable only because of antisemitism.
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Ive lived through the Blair years and despite him being the best Labour leader ive known (i know you wont agree on that) the above dreams and they are just that mate, dreams never happened and wouldn't even if comrade Corbyn had become PM.

Its simply not how the western world works.

Same shit, differently badged is what we citizens get to choose from.
 
blueinsa said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Lord Ahmed retires from Parliament days before expulsion

Lord Nazir Ahmed sexually and emotionally exploited a vulnerable woman, a conduct report concludes.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Not sure of our twitter/news aggregators are broken or just ignoring major news stories like this because they dont suit but ive stuck a link on in case anyone feels like commenting.
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Good, all politicians should be held to the highest standards of propriety at all times.

If they do wrong, they get the boot, it doesn't matter who they are whatever party they are from, they should all be treated equally and Parliament is no place for these people.
 
blueinsa said:
Ive lived through the Blair years and despite him being the best Labour leader ive known (i know you wont agree on that) the above dreams and they are just that mate, dreams never happened and wouldn't even if comrade Corbyn had become PM.

Its simply not how the western world works.

Same shit, differently badged is what we citizens get to choose from.
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The anti leftist propaganda has worked so well, i have a grudging admiration for it.
 
Rascal said:
Good, all politicians should be held to the highest standards of propriety at all times.

If they do wrong, they get the boot, it doesn't matter who they are whatever party they are from, they should all be treated equally and Parliament is no place for these people.
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Id actually say he should face criminal charges if the proof of any unlawful acts is there and im rather uncomfortable with anyone being found guilty like this by anyone other than our justice system given the accusations.
 
Rascal said:
The anti leftist propaganda has worked so well, i have a grudging admiration for it.
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Its reality though fella.

We will never have a government in this country that you want and whilst a Corbyn one would have gone somewhere near, my guess is after 5 years of it fuck all of note will have changed and you would have still been left very disappointed.
 
Rascal said:
So policy wise you think the party is great and is needed to solve the inequality in society and bring about fairness, decent housing for all, decent schools, decent hospitals, proper taxation of wealth, social justice, etc etc etc., You think all those are the right and proper policies that will benefit everyone in the country. You think that don't you, but they are unelectable only because of antisemitism.
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You can't really promise to solve the inequality in society or bring about social justice if you're the party of anti-semitism, can you?

You can't pretend to be promoting policies to benefit "everybody in the country" if people think you're racist.

It just doesn't work, it destroys the whole message. That's why this has been such a destructive episode for Labour.
 
Rascal said:
So policy wise you think the party is great and is needed to solve the inequality in society and bring about fairness, decent housing for all, decent schools, decent hospitals, proper taxation of wealth, social justice, etc etc etc., You think all those are the right and proper policies that will benefit everyone in the country. You think that don't you, but they are unelectable only because of antisemitism.
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I don't vote for anyone who is purposefully racist.
Far too many in the Labour Party are. Not just to people of a Jewish heritage either.
BTW I voted Labour in 1992, 1897 and 2001
 
Rascal said:
I act out of knowing how the left (hard ffs) is treated when the right have the upper hand in the party.

The left, me included were delighted when Blair won, he was voted in by all parts of the party as he promised the earth, but took the left for granted as if we would always be there and we ended up being just voting fodder for him to do as he wished and he didn't deliver on his promises to the left. During that time the left stayed broadly loyal, a few minor exceptions but broadly loyal as he was elected leader and PM. Brown and Ed Miliband were also backed by the left and again the left stayed loyal and upheld party unity. The left stayed loyal even when twats like Reeves voted for welfare cuts, we didn't moan or stage a coup, we were unified behind the leadership.

Then Corbyn won again voted in by a majority of party members, but almost straight away the PLP plotted against the left and organised a coup. The right of the Labour party are the ones who are disloyal, it was them who plotted and undermined the Labour party and after all those years of us on the left backing leaders who came from the right of the party it stuck in the craw. We did our bit for party loyalty but got zero loyalty in return from the right.

So no I don't act as though the Labour party belongs to the left, I do think it should be a Socialist party and not a socially liberal party but I have always voted Labour since I was old enough to vote and I remained loyal through the years of disappointment in Labour leaders espousing right wing virtues, when the lefts chance finally came, we were never shown the same loyalty we had given through the Thatcher years or the Blair years, we were plotted against, smeared and ridiculed as cultists and the right of the party stood and watched, then joined in and party unity disappeared.

Why should myself and other on the left who showed so much loyalty through all those years only to be shown disloyalty when our chance came have any respect at all from a person on the right of the party trying the same old tricks that we have seen before. They want our votes, they don't want our voices. What sort of democracy is that, when all you are thought of is as votes and especially when votes will be used to push policies that are not Socialist.
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Your problem there is that it wasn't "the left" who'd been loyal party members for years who made Corbyn leader but people who paid a few quid to join just to make him leader.
 
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