COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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I don’t like to see any harm from the Covid regardless of nationality but it was pretty low for the SNP to try and blame Scotland’s predicament on Blackpool. I wouldn’t be surprised it if it was the other way round.
Blackpool’s numbers at the time were very low. However they shot up mid October and are still high now.
I’m sure several hours travelling in close contact with little ventilation in a charabanc had absolutely zero impact on the spread of the virus, especially on the inebriated journey home.
 
I don't trust this latest convenient spike to pressure the lockdown vote. I don't trust this Government or the politicised hierarchy of the NHS and Dept of Health.
I don't understand, and never have done, why we have some ministers in charge of departments of which they have no knowledge. Hancock has absolutely no medical or scientific experience (possibly with the exception of lighting his farts with a bunsen burner). How can he possibly interpret all the the discrepant SAGE data?
 
I don't understand, and never have done, why we have some ministers in charge of departments of which they have no knowledge. Hancock has absolutely no medical or scientific experience (possibly with the exception of lighting his farts with a bunsen burner). How can he possibly interpret all the the discrepant SAGE data?
Perennial problem this. I don't believe ministers should be experts, but as a bare minimum, they need to have enough of a relevant scientific grounding in order to at least be able to follow the arguments, and hold the experts to account; to ask the right probing questions of them and to make sure that the scientific advice actually passes the common sense test. Far too often IMO the minister in charge has no fucking clue and therefore is unable to do anything other than accept whatever he/she is told.

The Tory cabinet in particular is far too crammed with Eton and Oxbridge educated tossers with a degree in some arty bollocks. There is barely a Physics degree in the entire parliament.
 
I haven’t a clue because all my family live in Urmston/Flixton and say barely anyone is following the rules.
How well a place like Trafford is doing is relative and hard to judge just on the sheer numbers.

Trafford and Stockport are pretty much neck and neck on all the measures as best in GM much of the time but will have very different socio economic profiles - though share big shopping focal points that people from around GM visit.

They were the only two boroughs in August who were give the chance not to go in restrictions.

They are the only ones still in the 2000s in the population score for GM. They nearly always have the lowest numbers and the lowest Pop scores. And the best weekly total. Though right now Trafford is outperforming Stockport both are currently ahead of the rest in GM.

Despite it always looking as if Trafford has lower numbers. As it usually does.

But Trafford is smaller than Stockport in population so you would expect maybe a fifth more cases in Stockport than in Trafford.

So if Stockport has 200 cases one day it would go up by the same pop score as Trafford if it got about 160.

So if they score roughly the same even though Trafford may have a slightly lower number of cases one day it may actually have pro rata had a worse day than Stockport and so its Pop Score will rise by the most.

You will notice that it is common for Stockport to have the lowest Pop Score rise and Trafford the lowest cases each day. That is why this happens and similar things occur for other towns. Both factors are telling you different things. Just going off the case numbers is always going to be a little misleading.

When Wigan beat Manchester by 1 case a few days ago it was a shock and Wigan's Pop score rose nearly twice as much as Manchester's despite having near identical case numbers. The reason being Manchester has about twuce as many people living there than Wigan borough. So Wigan getting near identical numbers to Manchester is a big deal and is actually twice as bad as Manchester getting the same number.

This is why the pop score is what the government use to define how well anywhere is doing day to day not how many cases it has day to day. That matters, of course, but without taking the Pop Score as the driver and how it changes day to day you cannot judge who is really doing well or is in trouble.

That's why I give both.

Knowsley for example was the worst place in Britain a few weeks ago and had Pop Scores rising by about 120 a day despite 'only' getting the same kind of numbers as Trafford did today (160 or so at Knowsley's peak).

Today Knowsley had under 100 cases - well below both Trafford and Stockport - but its Pop score went up by more than either of them because it should have had a lot fewer due to its small population. Roughly half of Stockport at 149,000.

I know it is hard to take all this in. It took me a while. And we do need to try to understand why Trafford is doing well and Wigan or Oldham the opposite. But the raw case numbers day to day are not a particularly good guide. Why I have started doing a daily table of how the boroughs Pop Scores are changing day to day across the week. A much easier way to see who is doing well and if they are getting better or worse.
 
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I think your choice of words is deliberately being provocative. I have read practically all of this thread and have I read people saying we need to lockdown, not want or extended lockdowns. Huge difference imo

not really, we had a lockdown, and it reduced the mortality rate so it worked, yet here we are...
 
Well Roub -I trust those equally eminent experts who don't have to cover the ass of the politicians they owe their jobs to. People who don't have to defend the waste of £billions on useless track, test and trace. Experts who aren't political mouthpieces but genuine intelligent not establishment career donkeys.
The Barrington Declaration and my own judgement is who I trust.
I don’t know whether to pity your infantile naivety or call you out as an idiot.
Either way read this.
 
I still disagree with your assertions.
Neither government, for whatever reason, have handled this well. Although, equally, few democracies have.
Your allegiance to your adopted country is admirable, however I have little allegiance to either and am able to be objective about the way both have been represented by both the press and some posters on here.
My issue is the free ride given to Sturgeon, who is no better than Johnson despite, again, the differences in severity of intervention. She’s riding a populist wave that is undeservin.
You are entitled to disagree, but without any evidence to back your initial claim that the death rate in Scotland was double that in England I don't think that element of debate can be taken any further.

With the main exception of communication I haven't made much of the difference in approach between the two Governments and so there doesn't seem to be much more to be said on that either. It's difficult for me to know how much more stringent the Scottish restrictions have been compared to England. The restrictions in the North West certainly seem to be as stringent as the tier 3 restrictions in Ayrshire, and the current four week lockdown in England seems to be a bit more severe than that. So perhaps things haven't been as restricted up here as they seem to you. During the times when the infection rate was low my son and daughter visited, separately, from Wiltshire & Surrey - both independently commented that social distancing seemed to be taken more seriously by people up here, even though the actual restrictions seem very similar.

Maybe the First Minister is riding on a populist wave but also maybe that is because she is communicating better? She takes time to explain her thinking and patiently dealing with the repetitive questions from media commentators who seem unable to produce novel questions and simply regurgitate the same old, same old, in different formats.

I also smile to myself when folk claim to be objective whilst questioning my bias. Of course I have biases - we all do - some of my biases I am aware of but I'm sure there are others that I don't recognise, thats a part of being human . The smile gets a little wider when someone claims to be objective but then doesn't produce the evidence on which that objectivity is based.
 
I don’t like to see any harm from the Covid regardless of nationality but it was pretty low for the SNP to try and blame Scotland’s predicament on Blackpool. I wouldn’t be surprised it if it was the other way round.
Blackpool’s numbers at the time were very low. However they shot up mid October and are still high now.
I’m sure several hours travelling in close contact with little ventilation in a charabanc had absolutely zero impact on the spread of the virus, especially on the inebriated journey home.
I agree that coachloads of folk travelling together for a few hours is a bad idea as is putting your 4 year old child in a car for a few hours with two people thought to infectious with the virus, or for that matter travelling from London to Glasgow after testing positive for Covid. Also it is equally likely that the transfer of infection would go both ways. Whichever, it was a good idea to advise folk not to travel. The autumn trip to Blackpool is something of a tradition especially from Glasgow and with, at that time, pubs open to watch the old firm game in England but not in Scotland the advice was maybe a bit protective of Blackpool and Carlisle and so on as well as being protective of Scotland.

Perhaps I should add that I am conscious from my family in England that the image of Scotland portrayed in some national newspapers is very different from that which I, with all my biases, see whilst actually being here in Scotland.
 
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Not sure how your response fits mine, or have you inadvertently responded to the wrong post?
It’s possible, this chat has got a bit to much for me, please for the sake of others And our NHS don’t leave your house until you are vaccinated and I hope to speak to you at some stage on another thread ;-)
 
I agree that coachloads of folk travelling together for a few hours is a bad idea as is putting your 4 year old child in a car for a few hours with two people thought to infectious with the virus, or for that matter travelling from London to Glasgow after testing positive for Covid. Also it is equally likely that the transfer of infection would go both ways. Whichever, it was a good idea to advise folk not to travel. The autumn trip to Blackpool is something of a tradition especially from Glasgow and with, at that time, pubs open to watch the old firm game in England but not in Scotland the advice was maybe a bit protective of Blackpool and Carlisle and so on as well as being protective of Scotland.

Perhaps I should add that I am conscious from my family in England that the image of Scotland portrayed in some national newspapers is very different from that which I, with all my biases, see whilst actually being here in Scotland.
This isn’t about nationalism for me. It’s about political exploitation of a pandemic and massaging the figures (that hasn’t worked).

Btw, I know about Glaswegians wanting to go to Blackpool to watch football. The Supporters Club Branch I run wouldn’t exist if Rangers hadn’t played City in Blackpool many years ago.
 
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