Spurs (A) - Post-Match Thread

Blue Eyed Dick said:
There's a lot going wrong at present, and don't get me wrong I'm not a "Get Pep out" fan, but the main thing that continues to drive me crazy is that there is never, never ever, a PLAN B.
Mourinho parks the bus and then nightmare - they get an early goal, so he continues to park the bus. Despite having 60+% possession we look toothless and go 2 down - still nothing changes. The stubbornness to continue playing the same way, not change it with any substitutes despite moaning that we cannot use 5 subs, is mighty frustrating.
Hate Mourinho, but admire him. I remember him at Chelsea making 2 subs and changing formation after 30min - acknowledging that he clearly got hi set-up wrong. However, City keep playing the same way on and on in the belief that if the game doesn't end eventually we will wear them down. When we play some of the lower Prem sides we often do wear them down and eventually score, but against clever managers in the Top 6, or dare I say in the latter stages of the Champs League we are far too easy to predict and get out smarted too often.
I love Aguero for his goals and Jesus for his workrate, but where is the third, alternative striker giving us a different option - the fast one? the tall one? Game plan of - get to the by-line, cross in in (usually low) and hope someone is there is predictable and therefore easy to stop. We have an aerial threat from corners, but not from open play - so the low ball is so predictable.
I've said enough now. PLAN B needed, different attacking option needed, Disagree?
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no mate , spot on with that assessment
 
bluwes said:
How's that gonna work. He's never going to be our manager and he doesn't have our players in his Spurs team
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It’ll most likely be a pic of Pep with the league title or champions league trophy, along with a news report of the latest Jose crash and burn.
 
We have had 15 months of steady decline and Pep doesnt appear to have the answers , i believe Arteta leaving the club has had a far bigger effect than we envisaged , he was a very good assistant but looking at his Arsenal careers so far not such a great manager.
Players like Stones , Zinchenko , Mendy , Rodri , Gundo , Mahrez , Garcia , Bernardo , Cancelo , simply arent delivering when they get their chances and most of them have stood still or gone backwards , £250m of talent contributing very little and the club has done nothing to get rid of the deadwood .
Time to make some harsh and hard decisions whilst settling for a top four position and a 12 month rebuild , we need fresh impetus , and hungry players who havent seen it all and done it all.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Tried to stay off and get myself some perspective, but my feelings haven’t changed. Apologies for not reading the previous 130 odd pages.

Domination of the ball is not a statistic that wins games. Penetration with the ball does.

The tactics we currently employ are decades old, and at least 2 years past their sell by date in the Premier League...unless we are literally almost perfect. Sadly, there is no Plan B, no forward to cross the ball to while looking to pick up second balls.

Peps game is moving the ball to move the opposition, to create the space to exploit.

There are 3 key factors missing from that equation today:

1) Teams play a 10 man defence (1-5-4) to close those spaces, and

2) We move the ball too slowly to exploit the spaces that MAY have been there before they collapsed into their defensive shell.

3) IF we do find ourselves breaching that first line of defence, squeezing between the lines, we are STILL looking for another inch perfect pass to lay it on for someone else.

We STILL do not know how to defend the 8/10 slot.

On goal #1, Cancelo looked more concerned with Aurier than Son, and £100M+ of centre backs BOTH got sucked in to Kane when he dropped off, leaving the entire field in behind them wide open. Cancelo vs Son with a 5 yard start for Son is no contest. Throw in Ederson once again defending no man’s land and it’s 1-0, with one pass, one touch, one shot.

1 shot, 1 goal. Typical City.

On goal #2, we are attacking. Mahrez lazily wanders in from the right wing, where Walker has joined him, and plays a loose square ball. We have committed players to a slow, if not stagnant, attack and thus KEEPING THE BALL is required. Sloppy pass and they’re away. A 3 on 3 becomes a 4 on 3 as KDB can’t catch Lo Celso down our right. One looks for EITHER Walker getting back (I think he was still in their half when the ball went in!) or a Centre Back coming across to close him down or even the DM sliding across. Nope...wide open down our right, into the box, slotted through the legs, game over!

Oh wait, no...maybe time for a sub???!!!

I’m not sure how many people it takes to show Pep the stats...

View attachment 5706

...but it’s EVERY GAME NOW FOR TWO YEARS!

The “stats” say it must have been a 4-0, or maybe 3-1 AT WORST, but it’s the same story every time the “Rondo in and around the box” doesn’t pay off!

Smash & Grab!

2 shots, 2 goals!

The build up is so slow, there is virtually zero chance of getting in behind. Yesterday, when we tried to slot the ball inside the full back for the winger or attacking full back, it was either misread, too tight, or simply a shit ball that gave the player no chance.

Against teams we know will sit in and break, we over expose ourselves, because we FEEL like we are dominating them in their space. Average field position for almost every game has our deepest defender in their half and our midfield camped around a 20-30m semi-circle around their goal.

However, the key word is CAMPED!

By the time we have collapsed them into two banks (6-3 yesterday), we have not only removed the spaces in which we want to play, but we have made those spaces easier to defend, because every team knows the ball is staying on the ground and we are going to try to pass-pass-dribble our way through.
As a defender against that, you don’t need precision, you need a touch, a bobble, a poor pass or uncontrolled dribble and you will successfully defend it.

Throw that repetitive method of attack at an organized defence and it’s unlikely to yield results, especially if no one is even looking to kick a ball back out to the edge of the box for a shot through the crowded box.

Our game has been to exploit the whole “defend the box” mentality, by getting players around it for the cut back or cross along the 6 yard line. Did we have a single attempt at that yesterday, or IF we got into that position did the winger feel the need to beat the player over and over and over again, or simply run it out of play (!!!) rather than whip it in?

We need to put Rondo to bed for a few weeks. It’s engrained in the players to the point they have forgotten everything else.

Instead, we need to start moving the ball around for a shot from the edge of the box. Once you start to demand being closed down there, the gaps start to open for either the shot OR the blind pass...or was David Silva the only player good enough to do that?

Back to basics.

A goalkeeper who doesn’t see every ball within 30m of his goal as a challenge.

Full backs who put as much effort into defending as attacking.

Centre backs talking about who is going and who is dropping, and know how to scream at midfielders who are not tracking their runners in the 8/10 slots...which is where our weak underbelly is and has been for at least 2.25 seasons now.

A midfield that understands their PRIMARY goal is to dominate the opposition midfield and control the game, not just be the 4th, 5th and 6th attacker. Also, track their runner on the counter attack. If you’re too knackered to do that for 90 minutes, take a look at yourself and where you’re expending your effort, because our whole game is about knackering the opposition by chasing the ball we own.

A forward line who doesn’t pass up the opportunity to shoot on sight and, instead, looks to either dribble, head down through a 6 man wall or look to pass the ball through a thicket of legs to someone else, so they can do the same! A forward line that takes a chance on a shot and is constantly looking for the deflection, the keepers parry, etc...

Lastly, a manager who steps back from Cruyff and takes a look at how Fergie, Shankly, Klopp, Mourinho, and even Wenger approached the game. Is there NOTHING TO LEARN from decades of success managers in Britain?

Make no mistake, I have never personally seen football as good as Pep’s City in full flow. On our day, we have the ability to easily score 10 goals. However, other managers see those days, too, and they set up their teams to frustrate, nullify, and maybe nick a set piece goal. The good managers with the good teams set them up to counter attack us at speed, because we have shown the world it is our Achilles Heel.

In addition, IMHO, football has moved on from the 5’ 8” player being a game changer, unless he is absolutely world class. Today, the game is about athleticism and power combined with technique, where technique is not always the #1 attribute, but a perfect compliment to the physical presence the player brings to bear on the game.

There are obvious exceptions, with Messi and David Silva immediately springing to mind, but from there the list trails off dramatically...and those are yesterday’s players!

Today, 5’10” is minimum height for a player in almost any position, with 6’ being an ideal. Throw in a gym-honed body and lungs that don’t burn until the 85th minute, at the earliest. THAT is the new generation of players that will dominate football going forward. They will be the foundation of all clubs, allowing that 5’7” wizard to play in the spaces on occasion.

We live in the age of defend and counter, defend and counter, not dominate but show your arse when you lose the ball!

We are a lightweight team. We do not physically match up to the top teams, either in England or Europe, and it’s beginning to peel back the veneer of supposed Pep Ball invincibility. Look at Bielsa. He’s taken a £100M team from the Championship and turned them into a team that went toe to toe against us and ran us ragged.

In short, we have a world class squad for playing a certain way. From here, they need to be COACHED on how to play against threats.

When Son scored, you could see Pep making it clear they’d talked about this but still fallen for it in the 5th minute. That’s frustrating against a strong club. But, it changed absolutely nothing, because we came with Plan A, and by God, we are going to stick with it until the end!

It is clear to me the core players are absolutely knackered, or injured, and others that are playing are carrying knocks. Others seem simply befuddled as to what the Plan A is when they get the ball and play their own game, in their own heads, rather than a cohesive, well thought out plan that they fit into.

For me, it’s time to play a 4-4-2/4-2-4, with defenders defending, 2 defensive minded midfielders and two attacking midfielders who can join the attack. It still provides us with a 6 man attacking “shell,” but it also allows us to transition into a 6 man defensive shell when we lose the ball, while expecting the 4 to close it down and stop the counterattack.

That would mean not always losing two players to hog the touchline, and would mean using an extra midfielder for more defensive purposes, but needs must, because we are now 5 points behind the leaders IF we win our game in hand.

Good luck to us all!
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I appreciate this thesis on what must of us usually sum up as 'we're shit'. Every point you make is valid .If you could e mail this to Pep I'm sure he wouldn't take a blind bit of notice. I have said for the past 2 years the need in our team for strength, physique, presence ,leadership. As Fernandinho waned we lack the dogs of war that every good team has.
 
BoyataIsGod said:
Yaya could undoubtedly be completely unplayable on his day, it was like the big kid in the play ground. He could also have periods where he would sulk, skulk around the pitch and look like he couldn’t be arsed.
Silva obviously also had periods where he wasn’t on top form but it never showed he never stopped trying or gave up he always offered for the ball and normally he was an absolute class act in every way the smoothest silkiest footballer with a ridiculous ability to appear as though he was the only player on the pitch. Merlin wins it hands down for me, a player we were all lucky to get to watch. Think I’m going to cry.
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Wow. I so enjoyed reading this post. However, am I alone in thinking if you just let all our players loose to express themselves we would do a lot better?
 
BlueMoonz1977 said:
Its basically a classic rope-a-dope tactic.

Allow us to dominate possession and push higher up the pitch, make our players believe they have total control within oppositions own half then bang...force the error or allow our play to break down and counter with speed and get a shot off

Opposition teams are allowing us to compress the pitch to the half way line because they know they can set the trap for the counter

It isnt rocket science anymore, it is becoming painful to see that we continuously fall for it
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I wonder what would have happened if we had just sat back a bit against Spurs. We fell right into their trap. They only had two shots and both were Ederson mistakes in my view.
 
didn't we make jose look like a tactical genius, he must have sent pep a bottle of bubbly and a note "cheers mate you made that easy for us"

yeh spurs are great, going to wipe the board this season. Think it will be same as ever to be honest and in time fans screaming to sack the manager.
 
Sorry don't know where to ask, can anyone explain to me why England national team drop out of the Nations league when their points is tied (10 pts) with Denmark, but then England has 3 GD. and Denmark only have 1 GD.
Shouldn't the 3 GD one be the one advance?

Not that I care much about Nations league, but I'm just curious.
 
Looking at the Liverpool - Leicester match it is amazing how good system and tactical tweaks can do to a team.
Credit where it is due , Kloop was able to play with a makeshift defence and still win 3-0 against a threatening Leicester team. I am pretty sure we would have lost this match with these many injuries. Infact we did ,
if the last season is anything to go by.

So I think the tactical side of things need a bit of upheaval Mr. Josep Guardiola.'
 
hihosilva said:
I never said I'm satisfied with the performances but it isn't anywhere near as bad as you think. It's still early on in the season & we have everything to play for. I'll give you a prediction, come the new year we will be top 2 & in contention.
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The title is gone already and it's not even Christmas, that is not good enough with the resources available to the manager.
 
Allianz said:
Sorry don't know where to ask, can anyone explain to me why England national team drop out of the Nations league when their points is tied (10 pts) with Denmark, but then England has 3 GD. and Denmark only have 1 GD.
Shouldn't the 3 GD one be the one advance?

Not that I care much about Nations league, but I'm just curious.
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It goes off head to head rather than goal difference. Denmark beat us 1-0 at Wembley & it was 0-0 in Copenhagen m8
 
Have a mate near me here in Chicago who is a lifelong Spurs fan (He’s from Lahndan).

After the second goal I sent this text:

7DFB7647-90F7-46C1-8596-A7CF91456E0A.jpeg
About summed it up as succinctly as I could, knowing he was home having the time of his life!
 
Keeper! said:
The title is gone already and it's not even Christmas, that is not good enough with the resources available to the manager.
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Its not gone yet but our first 8 efforts this season have to put it bluntly but accurately been well below the standard supporters expect , the owners expect and I trust the players and management expect.

i don't care about the media good , bad and indifferent mainly bad.

Liverpool once again showed with a understrength side how to combat a side that scored 5 on our patch and have bounced back from the Villa defeat as if it didn't happen extending their unbeaten home record to 64 matches.

So we are 12th 3 points ahead of Brighton who are 16th,

Totally unacceptable placed last of the so called big 6 going into the season as favourites to win the title.

Clearly the players are not capable presently or are not buying into the tactics and match day game plan Pep is demanding of them.

these results are akin to the results that Mark Hughes had before he was sacked in his second year in charge in December.
 
doobyedoobye said:
The title hasn't gone. There will be plenty more twists and turns..
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Tittle hasn't gone Correct. But pep has to change his style a little. We have to score a lot of goals and win some 8-9 straight games from now if we want to win.

Edit: as we know man utd are going to sit back as spurs and hit on counter. I very much hope pep wins that game.
 
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